HERE is the article about the above atrocity.
Where is the vociferous, deafening international outcry against the evil committed against this child — a victim in every sense of the word?
Meanwhile, in the UK: "Sharia: a law unto itself?: Critics claim that the spread of Sharia law is creating a parallel legal system that opposes equal rights" (dated August 7, 2011).
Where is Mariska Hargitay speaking out on this atrocity? Hargitay, star of Law and Order: SVU helped established the Joyful Heart Foundation to help victims of child abuse. Yes, the organization deals primarily with those issues here in the United States.
ReplyDeleteBut can you imagine how much attention that Hargitay COULD draw to the child abuse in Islamic countries? I'm sure that there are many, many others like Neeha.
Always On Watch,
ReplyDeleteMy heart goes out to the baby and her family, who both had to endure this horror. At least the baby didn't have to endure it for long, but now she is no longer among the living either. People like these make me sick. If someone raped and murdered a child of mine, for whatever reason, I would want them dead. Such savagery is beyond comprehension to most people.
I don't care what anyone says, I don't trust any Muzzloon.
ReplyDeleteWe are told that radical Muslims are a monority. I have my doubts. But I have no doubt that if they eist, they are so totally intimidated by the radicals that they can not act.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing this, AOW. I am still wondering why there is no outcry?? What is wrong with people? Are they so afraid of Muslim retaliation that they will watch and do nothing??!
ReplyDeleteNice article, thanks for the information.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAlligator,
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned something that I've long wondered about:
Even in the hey day of persecution of Christians in the Soviet bloc, I know of really bad stuff going on but can't recall anything quite this heinous. A close friend who spent time in Eastern Europe and the Middle East told me in 1982 that the Muslim countries were far more oppressive than the Communist countries.
Clearly, we will not hear much about that degree of oppressiveness as long as discussing it is "Islamophobia" or a "hate crime."
Of course, we didn't hear much about the degree of Soviet oppressiveness until the USSR broke up. See Solhenitsyn's "Warning to the West". I could change some words in that essay and make it apply to Islam today, particularly with regard to the whitewash of Islam and the West's financial support of oppressive regimes and radical groups in the Middle East today.
At the moment, no media -- mainstream or conservative (Discount the blogosphere for a moment) would dare utter what you have stated in the paragraph I copied and pasted into this comment.
To much emotion and not enough logic here. This discusting act has been noticed, reported and even acted upon.
ReplyDeleteWe all know about radicalism and Alligator's comments that it only happens in Islam is basically false. Crimes against humanity, child rape, rape in war, child soldiers is in fact a problem in many parts of the world, not just the Muslim ones. Child rape, forced religous conversions happen in India within Hindu dominated communities as well. The wife-bashing capital of the world is Nepal, the rape capital of the world at the moment is South Africa and that is because Papua New Guinea does not keep adequate statistics. Go to official and professional websites please and not just those with an obvious agenda and you will find that Honor Crimes is cultural and not Islamic and yes many cultures that happen to be Muslim (Arab and Turk) are heavy into honor killings, but again the Honor Killing capital of the world is India.
The point is, yes criticise the world's Muslims for letting these horrors in thier countries happen, someone did ask the question, why does not the moderates stand-up (because that is why the rat-bags take up the condemnation in their placce) but please if you have arguments then make them solid, factual and not some mindless ugly rant that puts you in either the extremist/fringe basket like so many you condemn yourself, or at worst, your argument will be ignored for being factless, emotive and mindless.
AOW, my statement is not at you, it is at the typical rubbish that some commenters come up with.
I was going to leave a reply to something Damien Charles QC wrote, but for some strange reason, his comment is not showing up.
ReplyDeleteDamien,
ReplyDeleteI see Damien Charles's comment in my email notification but not here on my web site or in Blogger's comments record.
Always On Watch,
ReplyDeleteThat is so bizarre. I wonder what caused it.
The worse the atrocities get the more their western apologists will cover for them, until it's their few children who are getting raped.
ReplyDeleteNo problem, I will copy it here.
ReplyDeleteWe all know about radicalism and Alligator's comments that it only happens in Islam is basically false. Crimes against humanity, child rape, rape in war, child soldiers is in fact a problem in many parts of the world, not just the Muslim ones. Child rape, forced religous conversions happen in India within Hindu dominated communities as well. The wife-bashing capital of the world is Nepal, the rape capital of the world at the moment is South Africa and that is because Papua New Guinea does not keep adequate statistics. Go to official and professional websites please and not just those with an obvious agenda and you will find that Honor Crimes is cultural and not Islamic and yes many cultures that happen to be Muslim (Arab and Turk) are heavy into honor killings, but again the Honor Killing capital of the world is India.
The point is, yes criticise the world's Muslims for letting these horrors in thier countries happen, someone did ask the question, why does not the moderates stand-up (because that is why the rat-bags take up the condemnation in their placce) but please if you have arguments then make them solid, factual and not some mindless ugly rant that puts you in either the extremist/fringe basket like so many you condemn yourself, or at worst, your argument will be ignored for being factless, emotive and mindless.
AOW, my statement is not at you, it is at the typical rubbish that some commenters come up with.
MK, if you consider my comment some form of 'apologist' then think again. I condemn and have fought for the rights of the abused through my work and the associations that I am a member of. The entire point here is the question why is it that so many here just wish to blame one faith when the EVIDENCE and the REALITY has a much broader profile and if anything, it does both a disfavour to all the other (and if fact larger) victims AS WELL AS gives tacit support by not making comments and EQUAL condemnation against them (as per the criticism that the "moderates" say nothing and thus are supporting).
Now make your comments.
My argument is always, base your comments on logic and fairness and then no one can argue against them.
This is just awful, just one more example of the Sharia law. Yet here in the US TEA party participants are the bad guys, won't use that word for the real terrorists.
ReplyDeleteDebbie
Right Truth
http://www.righttruth.typepad.com
Damien Charles,
ReplyDeleteJust now, I found two of your comments in my spam folder and published both comments.
I have no idea as to why Blogger put your comments there!
Damien Charles: the typical rubbish that some commenters come up with.
ReplyDeletePoint of order: Disagree with my commenters if you like. But do not label comments as "rubbish."
Damien Charles QC,
ReplyDeleteNow that your comments are showing up properly. I would like you to back up some of your claims. Including your one about Hindus using child rape to force people into their faith. I haven't heard anything about that. Also, what does the number of rapes in South Africa have to do Papua New Guinea not keeping good crime statistics? Did I understand you correctly?
Damien Charles QC, you mischaracterize Alligator's comment. I suggest you read it again.
ReplyDeleteHis point is that this crime was committed in the name of Islam to further Islamic goals. This crime was not about rape, it was about teaching the "infidel" a lesson. I find your rant about cultural difference to be a load of rubbish, (to use your own idiom,) and while forced conversions happen in Hindu dominated regions I have yet to hear of child rape and murder used as a terror tactic to force conversion. We do , however, hear of this type of thing including child kidnapping and forced marriage throughout the Muslim world.
We also know, under Sharia, five male eyewitnesses are required for a rape conviction and that rape victims are sometimes stoned to death as "adulterers" or lashed. That's sure to bring rape victims forward, isn't it!
Quite frankly, not withstanding your protestations to the contrary, I find your knee jerk reactions in defense of Islam, troubling.
Another atrocity (dated August 11, 2011):
ReplyDeleteGirl in Uganda Loses Use of Legs after Leaving Islam for Christ
Muslim father locked 14-year-old in room with almost no food or water for months.
NAIROBI, Kenya, August 11 (CDN) — A 14-year-old girl in western Uganda is still unable to walk 10 months after her father tortured her for leaving Islam and putting her faith in Christ, according to area Christians.
Susan Ithungu of Isango village, Kasese district, has been hospitalized at Kagando Hospital since October 2010 after neighbors with police help rescued her from her father, Beya Baluku. He was arrested shortly afterward but quickly released, sources said....
More at the above link.
Where is the outcry from various groups, including "moderate" Muslims?
Damien, you did misunderstand what I posted. Warren, thanks for covering. You stated my intentions perfectly.
ReplyDeleteAlligator, you're welcome.
ReplyDeleteA free service to alumni of Dr. Yeagley's school of American Indian and Scot insanity.
:^)
Alligator,
ReplyDeletePlease don't confuse me with the other Damien. We're not the same person, and we often totally disagree.
Damien,
ReplyDeletebefore I respond, let me remember how I did it before and I will change my name to D Charles QC because I see it is still a problem for you. As I said, you have used the name on the net longer than I have.
I did not say that Hindus use child-rape as per forced conversion, though I would have no doubt that the same tactic has been used, as rape has been a tool for power, coersion and other attrocities well before records were kept.
The entire point, and this goes to other posters here as well, that I have a very strong objection to arguments that are either not based on facts, based on questionable assumptions and contextual abuse.
For example the argument of rape to further Islam. Though I am sure it is used, we can argue does that person or persons actually represent Islam? They may believe so or they may use it (the rape) or Islam as just an excuse for their power. We can argue that a certain fringe-Mormon leader has just been put into jail for life for multiple rape, forced marriages and all based on God's will? Shall we say that Mormons are child rapists?
I know the subject is terrible, the horrors are real and I have seen, read and even in my past been involved in legal cases that frankly would make most sick and yes on more times than I would like to remember I have sat next to my own children (three daughters one son now all adults) and weeped.
The entire point is lets get actual context into the subject and then discuss, debate etc.
Damien Charles QC,
ReplyDeleteWell thanks again, for changing your name. I hadn't forgotten about that. Its just annoying me when people confuse the two of us, okay. Please don't take it personal.
I'm sorry if you thought I didn't appreciate what you did.
ReplyDeleteI do not "defend" Islam as one person is suggesting. I point out inacuracies, assumptions, basic falseness and even malicious lies. The point is I see many of them directed towards Islam and so I find it necessary to respond, simply because it makes arguments look not only stupid but it DESTROYS the credibility of any correct arguments.
ReplyDeleteThe big ones which are correct is why do we not see moderate Muslims defend themselves or attack the radical arguments and actions? Why is it that there are even governments out there that neither defending the faith or attacking the radicals? Why is it that there is tolerance to radical Muslim groups in the West who push at the minimum anti-integration and supporting foreign leadership?
Damien Charles QC,
ReplyDeleteIf you weren't saying that the child rapes by Hindus were attempts at forced conversion, than I did misunderstand what you were saying. Sorry about that.
Some of the areas that are mistaken, ignored, contextually abused and pushed which are wrong is the subjects of Honor Killings, rape, FGM and in fact Sharia Law.
ReplyDeleteHonor Killings is cultural, stop. It certainly exists in some cultures that happen to be in Muslim communities. Honor Killings happen in many parts of the world and the country with the most honor killings is India.
Rape. There are some who will argue that Islamic society allows rape. Now some cultures such as certain Arab communities treat women worse than second class citizens but either way, rape is a crime and the problem is social - proving it. Rather than concentrate on what we assume is Sharia law (which is different depending on what country that has it and that most do not), we should point out the more important subject of which countries have the highest rape rates. South Africa tops the list but PNG probably does.
FGM (female genital mutatilation) is also cultural and Christian or Animist communities do exactly the same.
Sharia Law. Is Sharia Law identical in every country that has it? No. Does every Muslim country have it? No, in fact less than half.
AOW,
ReplyDeleteI crossed some boundaries you set, I will endeavour not to again.
Changed the name and added even a bit of patriotism in the graphic....
ReplyDeletehope this stops confusion for you Damien.
D Charles QC,
ReplyDeleteThanks. That was very nice of you.
Damien Charles QC said...
ReplyDelete"I do not "defend" Islam as one person is suggesting."
As the "one person", I said, "I find your knee jerk reactions in defense of Islam, troubling."
Since you claim that you don't defend Islam you shouldn't mind apologizing to Alligator for mischaracterizing his comment, (that was the subject of my comment after all.)
Something about you doesn't "smell right", Damien Charles QC, and I'm known to have a very good sniffer.
Warren, though I did certainly misread some of his comment and do certainly wish I could take back the remark, I will quote a part of his item which I certainly did in part respond to.
ReplyDelete"Just one more in long, long, long list of atrocities committed in the name of the "religion of peace."
Just look back for the last 25 years. Do you see this kind of thing going on among:
Christians - no
Jews - no
Hindus - no
Sikhs - no
Buddhists - no
Shintos - no
Native Americans - no
"
That comment is incorrect and is part of the rather naive views that I find myself endlessly pointing out as both wrong, baseless and damages any good or logical arguments along with them.
As for your snout, that is your problem not mine. My own agenda is clear enough, keep honest, factual and in context and I have nothing to say. In fact there are items on this and other blogs that I have nothing to say because they are based on sound argument or in fact I agree with.
D Charles QC,
ReplyDeleteOff course there are people who belong to every major religion who commit atrocities, but how much of it is done in the name of their religion by people from each of those faiths? I'm not talking about in the distant past, or even the Middle Ages, I'm talking about the past ten years. Within the last decade, how many violent atrocities were committed by people belonging to each one of those religions in the name of their religion. If you do enough research, I think it will become obvious to you which religion overall has the most fanatical followers right now. How many Christians threatened people with Death and riot in the Streets over anything critical or insulting towards their faith. South Park repeatedly mocks Jesus and Christianity, but the last time the show even commented on how Muhammad can't be made fun off for fear of being killed, they received death threats from someone belonging to an American Muslim fundamentalist organization called, Revolution Muslim, and they censored themselves out of fear. In fact the episode in question, didn't really make fun of Muhammad all that much, instead it poked fun at how unwilling people are to criticize him or even depict him out of fear. The episode didn't even depict an image of him. Following the cartoon riots, Comedy Central was too terrified to let Tray Parker and Matt Stone show an image of Muhammad, for fear that some Muslim fanatic would kill them. When was the last time you heard about Christians, or Jews or Hindus, or Buddhists, or people belonging to any other major religion, rioting in the streets and issue death threats over cartoons that made fun of their faith?
Damien, two points need to be made here to get things into perspective.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all we all know that there are radical Islamists creating havoc, involved in terrorism, demanding anything and everything and in the name of the style of Islam that they follow. Having said that, we should also know that they represent mostly themeselves and they though a great problem, they are still a minority. We can argue that the majority are doing nothing about it and we should condemn that, but nothing more.
Secondly, I have to disagree with you about other religions not doing the same in the name of faith. It was not long ago, for example, in 2009 in Orissa State in India that there were rioting, murders, rapes and forced evictions of Christians by Hindus. Do we remember the oldest Mosque in India being destroyed because it was built on a site the Hindu radicals believed to be an ancient Hindu shrine? Though the media does not bother to concentrate on it, the conflict between Tamils and Sri Lankan Buddhists is supported by each of their clergy as being a spiritual battle. Cambodia and Thailand have almost gone twice to war over a piece of land because of an important temple, is that not religous?
I would argue that in most cases, including the Muslim ones, it is in fact not about faith but power and control and the faith is an excuse. Sure there are zealots and we see them for what they are in every faith but the instability in the regions that Islamists live makes it the best tool.
It should be pointed out that Al Qaeda, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, Hezbollah, Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood are all more political than religious and most experts consider them to be more political than fanatical and in some cases hypocritically so (such as Hezbollah allowing dancing girls at their celebrations - and then being condemned by their spiritual leader later on...).
To continue on this theme, I suggest you read up on The Lord's Resistance Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army), then there is the The National Liberation Front of Tripura and Manmasi National Christian Army in India (not to mention the larger amounts of Hindu groups). I understand that even Romania's Iron Guard still exists and is active.
D Charles QC, oh please do enlighten us, the unwashed ignorant rabble of the colonies.
ReplyDeleteYou have no claim on logic. You commonly use logical fallacy in your "argument".
You have used straw-men "We all know about radicalism and Alligator's comments that it only happens in Islam is basically false."
Red herring "Child rape, forced religous conversions happen in India within Hindu dominated communities as well. The wife-bashing capital of the world is Nepal, the rape capital of the world at the moment is South Africa and that is because Papua New Guinea does not keep adequate statistics."
Misleading vividness "We can argue that a certain fringe-Mormon leader has just been put into jail for life for multiple rape, forced marriages and all based on God's will? Shall we say that Mormons are child rapists?"
Appeal to authority (frequent claims of membership in certain organizations and membership to the English Bar)
Begged the question "The big ones which are correct is why do we not see moderate Muslims defend themselves or attack the radical arguments and actions? Why is it that there are even governments out there that neither defending the faith or attacking the radicals?"
Attempted to poison the well in the cases of Robert Spenser, Pamela Geller and probably others I'm not aware of.
I'm sure I'm not the only one to question your honesty or your agenda.
Damien Charles,
ReplyDeleteI crossed some boundaries you set, I will endeavour not to again.
Thank you.
I do like a lively discussion as has been going on here. I haven't been participating because of extreme fatigue, but I do read all comments via comment notification.
I'm not quite sure exactly why I'm so incredibly tired -- seasonal allergies perhaps.
I'm counting on Warren right now to take up a bit of the slack. FYI....Warren is a blog administrator here.
Damien Charles,
ReplyDeleteYes, the followers of most faiths have persecuted those of other faiths. Religious (and tribal) wars go back to time immemorial.
But none of those following other faiths flew airplanes into buildings here in the United States on 9/11 and, thereby, committed mass murder in the name of their god.
Does every word of the Quran promote violent jihad? No. Do some of the words of the Quran promote violent jihad? Yes. And the latter give the opening for the sons of Allah to work mayhem.
The issue of abrogation is debated among some Islamic scholars. But other Islamic scholars, teachers, imams, etc., have come down on the side of those later verses -- the violent verses.
What I wish for: denominations within Islam. Moderate Muslims do need to separate themselves from the others.
The problem of Salafist imams preaching and teaching in mosques throughout the West is a serious problem. Indeed, I know of one former Muslim from Afghanistan who left Islam because when he came here to the States to escape the Taliban, he found the same teachings going on in the local mosque: "I left my country to get away from these people. They're here in the United States. I'm not a Muslim any more. I'm not anything." (paraphrase of my conversation with him)
Yes, there are Muslims who aren't waging jihad. If ALL Muslims were waging jihad, we'd be in serious trouble.
You can rail against Spencer and Geller all you want. But much of what they say, especially Spencer, goes a long way to explain "the problem with Islam."
Damien Charles.
ReplyDeleteFrustration here!
I found another of your comments in Blogger's spam folder. I have no control over this perverseness on the part of Blogger!
I'll check my spam folder more often.
AOW,
ReplyDeleteI hope the fatigue clears itself out and it is nothing more. Your care role I am sure is a part of it.
Regarless of Warren's Administrator role, frankly speaking he looks for agendas in everything and uses that to avoid the points. If he is interested in serious discussion, he is going the wrong way around it. You may not agree with my comments but at least you show the common respect.
Your comment about "other faiths" persecuting but not flying planes into buildings is interesting. It raises a few questions. The first is that if the chosen "enemy" of another faith that does persecute was a large industrialised nation, would not that be a possibility? Also, though as horrid, disgusting and outrageous as it is, does the flying of planes into buildings as the Islamists do make it the faith's fault? No it would not, it just shows how bad these followers get but if you talk to the Christian families the tens of thousands of victims of Hindu-Chauvenism violence in Orissa, would they be considering 9/11 to be the more important? I am certain no.
Damien Charles,
ReplyDeleteI think that my fatigue is due to a combination of factors -- one of them being low blood pressure (recently developed). An ailing cat didn't help!
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I'll leave it to Warren to respond to the portion of your comment addressing him.
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Also, though as horrid, disgusting and outrageous as it is, does the flying of planes into buildings as the Islamists do make it the faith's fault? No...
I'd agree with you were it not for certain verses in the Quran and certain portions in the Hadith.
I am, of course, aware of the Hindu persecution of Christians in India. I'm also aware of the Muslim persecution of Hindus in India. The people of Orissa are particularly fierce historically.
THIS LIST at Wikipedia shows that Christians are still persecuted today all over the world, and, of course, the Hindu persecution of Christians is listed. The list does show a predominance of Muslim persecution of Christians. If we're going to talk numbers, over the course of history, who has killed more Christians -- Muslims or Hindus?
But the issue of numbers isn't my point. My point is those anti-other verses in the Quran. I'm not in any way an expert on Hinduism, but I will venture to say the extremist Hinduism is more closely related to political situations than to the tenets of Hinduism. Put bluntly and simplistically, Hinduism isn't inherently violent, but Islam is. Note that I said "simplistically."
Any religion -- no exception -- can become violent in unification of politics and religion. In my view, eons of history have adequately proved that assertion.
This blog exists because 9/11 happened. So, I focus on Islam and the doings of Muslims. discounting Pearl Harbor, no other group has even pulled off such an attack against the United States. I am not a "citizen of the world" (a moronic phrase, in my opinion); I am a citizen of the United States.
D Charles said:
ReplyDelete"Regarless of Warren's Administrator role, frankly speaking he looks for agendas in everything and uses that to avoid the points."
I've avoided nothing unless someone besides you believes gratuitous statements to be legitimate tools of debate. By the rules of debate, gratuitous statements and charges may be dismissed gratuitously.
"If he is interested in serious discussion, he is going the wrong way around it."
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
"You may not agree with my comments but at least you show the common respect."
Get over yourself D Charles, you've shown little if any "common respect" to the other commenters on this blog or me. You "may" be the lord high mucky muckum wherever you're from or at, but here, on this blog you are just another commenter and no one is impressed with your attitude.
From now on you will address all your concerns with my actions to me. If you don't care for that you are free to move along, don't let the door hit you in the back side on the way out.
Warren says "if you cannot take the heat", my response is "if you cannot take an alternative view...".
ReplyDeleteDebate requires a certain amount of freedom of views, alternatives, the devils' advocate role, etc, etc, etc. What it does not contain is attacking the alternative view out of sheer spite because it did not follow one's point of view. Get it?
AOW, though your correct that it is not the issue, you asked the question " we're going to talk numbers, over the course of history, who has killed more Christians -- Muslims or Hindus?". The answer is overwhelmingly us Christians simply because of the scale of events. There is a misconception that Islam spread by the power of the sword but Christianity did not. What takes the balance over on Christianity's side is South America and the expansion of Christianity eastwards from Europe.
ReplyDeleteI think we will have to disagree with each other on the text issue and I follow the same line as academics that the text in Islam (other than haddiths) is written in a similar context as the Bible (OT more than NT). It comes down to human frailties and using faith as an excuse.
It is interesting that we can come down to a civil "agree to disagree" whilst on IBA I am constantly attacked as a racist and liar. Ten points to your maturity AOW and zero for the juviniles over there.
AOW, I am told that blood pressure is better targetted through well planned or altered diet. Take care.
ReplyDelete"What it does not contain is attacking the alternative view out of sheer spite because it did not follow one's point of view. Get it?"
ReplyDeleteYou can't have it both ways. You speak of logic and abuse it. When called on it you whine. If you are truly a member of the Bar you have been trained in rhetoric and have no excuse.
Now do you wish to debate or are you only here to cause trouble?
I will not have the commenters here be abused by someone who wishes to feed an ego that outweighs his intellect.
I will delete your posts if you continue to annoy me.
Damien Charles,
ReplyDeleteActually, my question was this: Have Muslims killed more Christians or have Hindus killed more Christians? I wasn't asking about how many of other faiths that Christians have killed.
In any case, the issue of this post about the rape of the toddler isn't about numbers or what has happened over the course of history. Rather, the post is about an atrocity committed in the name of Islam or, if you prefer, by specific practitioners of Islam.
So, this conversation at this thread is closed as far as I'm concerned.
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As for IBA, the men there are a lively bunch -- and blunt too. Civility is not a priority in that forum. I post and administrate there -- as does Warren.
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Be advised that I never interfere with Warren's administrative decisions here at my blog. My mantra: "Warren knows best." Warren and I are personal friends, we are family.