See Islam 101: What Islam REALLY Says About Jesus and His Return over at Logan's Warning. Worth your time in these days of increasing Chrislam.
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See Islam 101: What Islam REALLY Says About Jesus and His Return over at Logan's Warning. Worth your time in these days of increasing Chrislam.
AOW: Your link to Chrislam is broken. Looks like you have an extra parenthesis on the end. I took it off and it worked.
ReplyDeleteInteresting stuff...
Silverfiddle,
ReplyDeleteThanks for letting me know about the broken link. I've fixed it.
Their logic doesn't even make sense, don't they realize how illogical it sounds to say Christ would return and reject everything He said in the Bible? Why would He have said it in the first place? Why would He teach us to be like Him, and then on the judgment day say otherwise?
ReplyDeleteI always thought that liberals were the masters of twisted logic but I see they have a ways to go to match the Muslims.
ReplyDeleteWow, the Muslims to share your beliefs. What do we do about this situation.
ReplyDeleteDeport all of them?
Let the evangelicals take over?
The see Jesus as a prophet but nothing more. They will NEVER recognize Him as the true Messiah, how can they? It would refute everything they have been taught.
ReplyDeleteDucky "Muslims believe that Jesus will come back to fight for Islam, not Christianity!"
ReplyDeleteWhat part of that shares a Christian's beliefs? I keep telling you READ THE POSTS and then respond.
Silverfiddle, good point about going there and shouting that.....
Here's a wild one: Imagine US sending millions to Islamic countries to FIX MOSQUES? (oh, wait, that IS happening.....never mind) And DARN those Evangelicals for minding. :-)
AOW, was at a jewelry store the other day for a repair and the owner is Lebanese with an American wife who I dealt with. She was wearing a Mr T kind of HEAVY gold chain and a large gold cross...on the gold cross was a pave diamond Islamic crescent soldered to the top of the cross.....CHRISLAM illustrated.
ReplyDeleteI have a hunch neither are particularly religious (how could they be to do that, right?) and they thought it was a cute representation of 'their love crossing religious lines'..which is FINE for them, and what do I care..? Except I really did think it was very much like a new symbol most CHristians (and Muslims) would like to ignore. (Except Rick Warren or Robt Schuller, of course) :-(
I have two comments here.
ReplyDeleteThe first is that Islam, as we well know, does not put divinity in ANY of the prophets, including Mohammed. I will disagree with Silver, Imams and Shieks all the time, including in Saudi and even the Grand Mosque in Mecca, will remind worshippers that God is the only person to be worshipped and that Mohammed was only the Messenger albiet the last and greatest. They do and regularly make the comparison to Christians that worship Jesus and pray through Him as being disrespecting the status of God Himself.
Having said that, they do consider Jesus (they call Him Issa) and Adam as being "different" in that they were creations of God and not born of man. The koranic quote says something like "coming from the sand and returning to the sand".
That status of Jesus and their not believing Him to be the Son of God is the main difference and the only real "sticking point" in relations.
The second comment is that I have a dislike for the work of this Logan person and you can read a lot of effort into creating hate and division and I really wonder what or who is behind his motives for what I personally think is trash-talk. There is a lot of failure in context with a combination of pointing out only those bits that suit the argument (and ignoring the rest) and some clever cut & paste in a typical Spenseresque style.
The bottom line is that there is a lot of commonality between Christianity, Judaism and Islam, the fact that we all believe in the same On True God and the prophethood of Moses and Abraham and almost the rest is the level of tolerance that we mortals can (or cannot) manage.
Sure, Judaism will not accept either Christian or Muslim claims of prophet hood or divinity, Christians will not accept Islam and Muslims can say they accept all, albiet monotheistically.
I tend to look towards the commonality and avoid exagerations, contextual abuse and point fingers using facts only and it always comes down to man abusing faith and not the other way around. This Logan does the opposite and it is foolish and douwn-right nasty (imho).
D Charles,
ReplyDeleteThere may well be a lot of commonality between Christianity, Judaism and Islam, but I do not believe that we all worship the same God. Neither Jews nor Muslims believe in the Holy Trinity. Furthermore, as a Christian, I do not worship Allah, whose persona is very different from the Christian God the Father.
I find it particularly offensive that the Quran was read in churches on Easter Sunday. Easter should be a time to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus.
I also wonder this: Do Muslims allow the New Testament to be read during Ramadan in their mosques?
As for Logan, you can dislike him all you want. But the body of the post I linked to is factual. Clearly, the Islamic views of end days and eternity differ from the Christian views of end days and eternity.
Z,
ReplyDeleteShe was wearing a Mr T kind of HEAVY gold chain and a large gold cross...on the gold cross was a pave diamond Islamic crescent soldered to the top of the cross.....CHRISLAM illustrated.
Ugh.
Syncretism! Some would say, "Heresy!"
D Charles,
ReplyDeleteLogan's "agenda" is in his sidebar:
The primary mission of this website is to educate non-Muslims on the ideology & practice of Islam and to Islam's threats to our free and open society. The goal is to assist in developing legislation to defeat the dangerous Sharia movement underway here in America..
As far as I know, Logan is "just another blogger" (Hate that phrase!) and writes no books to sell -- just like I am. In that past you have alluded to the marketing aspect of other bloggers, but this site and Logan's (as far as I can tell) are not marketing sites. You can categorize us as "concerned citizens," I guess.
Duck,
ReplyDeleteWhat in the world as you talking about?
This Christlam business is just part of the fulfilling of the prophecy of the one-world religion. Revelation speaks of a one-world economy and government where everyone will worship the same. We see the forerunners of these three areas in our world today. Exciting or scary depending on where your soul is entrusted.
ReplyDeleteRepublican Mother,
ReplyDeleteI don't often post about theology, particularly about eschatology.
That said, I agree with your statement -- although none of us knows "the day or the hour."
AOW,
ReplyDeleteAs far as I am aware, there would be no Christian texts read in Mosques, not because they do not accept Christianity (because they accept Jesus) but because they consider the Bible to be tainted by the hand of man and no longer original. I would suspect that they would not allow another faith's message to be read in their Mosques anyhow, and to be honest, I would walk out of a reading of a Koran at the Sunday Service because we certainly do not accept Mohammed or his message, do we? Add to that a Sunni Muslim friend of mine says that a Sunni will not pray in a Shia Mosque if there are any human or animal images in view (Shias have pictures of the 12 Imams and often Khomenei present). Thus it is illogical for a Muslim to pray in a Church with a giant statue of Lord Jesus on a cross....
Though this Logan produces many facts within the item it is, in his typical style, very much out of context and he stresses those things that are not common to push his point and avoids those that are. Also I actually wonder the value of nit-picking at theological statements of which half is up to interpretation and you can multiple answers. Add to that Logan is doing the Spencer treatement of regularly supporting the notion that radical and hard-line conservative Muslims are the only real Muslims and the other 90 per cent must be either not serious or "bad" Muslims. We must ask why he pushes that line and for what benifit. The reality is that all three Abrahamic faiths have a theological view of life and after-life and if you talk to a priest, rabbi or Imam they will push the after-life, in God's presence arguments that frankly most people do not really contemplate and often take as being more symbolic than actual. One argument that I find logical for a Muslim to say is that in the after-life Jesus is a Muslim. That makes sense if you believe in Islam because we as Christians must believe that in the after-life Abraham and Moses are now devote Christians. Surely a Jew will not accept that argument, right? Yet that argument is thrown in the face of Muslims as a condemnation.
There are bloggers and bloggers. I like your posts because you have your view and you argue your case, debate and accept that others have views. I do not see you, like Logan, claiming to be an expert and pushing a particular line as being the only logic; whilst you certianly do not push hate. Logan certainly pushes a questionable line and I put him in the same basket as Daniel Greenfield and I suspect with the same motivations (Greenfield most clearly does his hate for the Settler Movement's benefit).
D Charles,
ReplyDeleteOne argument that I find logical for a Muslim to say is that in the after-life Jesus is a Muslim. That makes sense if you believe in Islam because we as Christians must believe that in the after-life Abraham and Moses are now devote Christians. Surely a Jew will not accept that argument, right? Yet that argument is thrown in the face of Muslims as a condemnation.
Except that, as a Christian, I believe that Jesus is the Christ and divine.
Also, according to the Christian view, Abraham and Moses had total faith and "it was counted to them as righteousness." See Hebrews Chapter 11. Furthermore, the animal sacrifices, particularly that of the lamb on the Holiest Day, is viewed as a type of the coming Savior.
BTW, I am not condemning Muslims for not believing in Jesus as Lord and Savior. I AM condemning some Christians for apparently ignoring that Islam and Christianity are quite different theologically, despite the common ground often cited.
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Yes, I certainly have my views. My style of presentation is different from that of some bloggers -- although I have been known to rant from time to time.
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As you said, I would walk out of a reading of a Koran at the Sunday Service because we certainly do not accept Mohammed or his message, do we?
A lot of interfaithing does teach that one shouldn't walk out of such services -- or so I've heard, anyway.
We often hear "All religions are basically the same." I don't buy that at all. Period. Logically speaking, why would there be different religions if all religions were the same? The political element aside, of course.
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I do have a great deal of respect for Robert Spencer and have read a lot of what he has written. But, clearly, I do not read Spencer exclusively.
Religion -- any religion -- is a complicated matter. that said, I believe that religious zealots of all types are dangerous, particularly if religion and government are one entity.
"For if someone comes along and preaches another Jesus than the one we preached, or should you receive a different spirit from the one you received or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you are all too willing to listen"
ReplyDelete2 Corinthians 11: 12
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time. "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Matthew 24:24 -27
sablesgd,
ReplyDeletedid you have an point to make other than insults and ranting?
If you bothered to actually do some reading and research (other than some hate sites) you may notice that the Ten Commandments are actually part of Islamic doctrine.
Your list of what you think Islam seems to be taken off some dumbass hate-site and has not much to do with reality.
If you want to be a bigot, your free to do so just as much as we are free to consider you ignorant.
What third-world hell holes are you talking about - my guess your stupid enough to put all 56 Muslim countries as being such and that will go a great deal in puting you in perspective and context.
As I have said to others many times, I have no problem when people point fingers and condemn what is worth condemning. Put a big of logic and facts and then nobody can argue against you. On the other side, simple hate-speech, baseless garbage or in this case, mindless arrogant (or ignorant) stupidity simply make the commentor look stupid (in this case very) AND any good arugments (in this case there is none) lost behind the failures.
Sablegsd,
ReplyDeleteThank you for stopping by.
In my view, the West in general needs to take the important step of vetting immigrants from all nations. If vetting is impossible (Much fraud abounds!), then the doors should be slammed shut.
We seem willing to open our nation's doors to many Muslim immigrants -- not so much for the Copts and other similar groups. Go figure.
D Charles,
ReplyDeleteI do tolerate rants here -- as long as foul words are not used. This is the blogosphere, after all.
Sablegsd may be back to respond to you.