That is one chilling web site, Always. I cruised around it a bit (now I'm sure that was recorded somewhere) and it was quite frightening the way it is so "matter of fact." We are not wrong to oppose mosques in our neighborhoods or Muslim schools in our midst.
Sure they're against Crusades: Anybody who fights them is their enemy. Still, we're not doing much, are we......Islamists are counting on Political Correctness to hide them in its warm embrace. So far, so good. At America's peril.
Islamophobia is simply common sense. When people really are out to kill you, it's smart to be afraid.
Something I've never understood, is why any people would rather hate than love. Or at least like. Or maybe just simply not care. Islam is based on blind hatred and look how successful it is.
I just have a hard time accepting that human nature is so basically brutal even though I know that it is.
It's a good thing I wasn't born a Muslim, I don't think I would have been a very good one. :-)
The important point is, as someone else put it, the deafining silence from the moderate Muslims. No wonder they have such an image problem.
However I will disagree with the general theme that seems to be basically targetting all Muslims and Islam itself (because you cannot have one without the other).
I have to a degree spent 30 plus years working with and associating with Muslims, I travel to Muslim countries regularly, I know scholars and have discussed and studied their faith. Additionally I subscribe to a strong principle of hard facts and not emotions running my conclusions.
Sure the subject of 9/11 is emotive and painful and that emotion and pain has been used to the maximum by profiteers. These profiteers are those that like to keep the heat on the subject going, sell books or simply get their names or their websites as the leaders and topics of the day.
We all know that the Muslim world is suffering with radicalism, militant Islamists, hard-line oonservatism and they need to sort that huge mess out as it is affecting the entire globe. Terrorism exists, is dangerous and they have declared war on us and we must respond likewise with force.
However, the facts remain the same - the majority of the world's 1.6 (or whatever the number) Billion Muslims are not hard-liners, radicals, militant Islamists or terrorists. They are mostly either victims of the above, poor, uneducated and mostly agriculture-based. They are spending the vast majority of their time just coping with day-to-day life to either survive or get ahead.
Additionally, the Islamists in the West are often the issue and it must be realised that they are often promoting their version of Islam that often does not equate to the perseptions or life in the real and actual Muslim World. They get a greater hearing than they deserve and that is played in both their hands and the hands of professional haters who profiteer. One must wonder the logic behind this Crusader's item linked. They promote Anjem Chaudrey as being the representative of Islam. Like Spencer, promoting the fringe radical or hard-line version of Islam as being the only Islam serves who? Haters need someone to hate, that is the bottom line.
Sure, target these Islamists here in the West, they have no place here and they thrive off the haters as well as the stupid liberal governments that give them rights to abue them in turn.
Also condemn the silence of the western Muslims whom because of their silence allows the ugliest part of us to rise and fill the gap that they should have taken.
D Charles, The important point is, as someone else put it, the deafining silence from the moderate Muslims. No wonder they have such an image problem.
The issue of what is the will of Allah? That issue has played a huge part in the shaping of Islam over the centuries.
---------------
9/11 will remain an emotional issue. Certainly every American can still recall exactly what he was doing when he heard the news that the Twin Towers had fallen and that people were jumping out of windows to fall to their deaths in preference to immolation.
A few days after 9/11, a WW2 veteran said to me, "What happened the other day took my breath away. Just like Pearl Harbor did." He had tears in his eyes because he had hoped to live out his last days in a peaceful world instead of officiating at and attending funerals for our fallen as a result of 9/11. I won't type in his comments after the mutilation of American soldiers' bodies in Iraq. Typically a quiet man, he ranted about that.
Both 9/11 and the bombing of Pearl Harbor were world-changing events. Yet, the West wants to pretend that 9/11 was not a world-changing event.
the majority of the world's 1.6 (or whatever the number) Billion Muslims are not hard-liners, radicals, militant Islamists or terrorists
But it takes a relatively small number of hardliners to control the rest.
Frankly, I grow weary of Muslims' victimhood mentality. I wouldn't feel that way if "the majority" stepped up and "reclaimed" their faith -- publicly, vociferously and to the point of not being able to be ignored.
Some years back, Free Muslims Against Terrorism held a demonstration in Washington, D.C. Not many showed up.
I was at my desk and I closed down my office and told all my staff to go home and not come the next day also. Though we were far aware the implications was global and at the time we had no idea if this was the start of something immediate.
There are two clear elements that I see and i think they are often muddled and that is sad and ultimately important. The first is the responsibility and the second is the response.
The responsibility is muddled and abused byt hose seeking advantage. We know about global jihadism and its links and that is responsible. Though yes we can say the muted response is condemnable and should be pointed out, it is not responsible as is the faith of Islam or the global Muslim population. I think you understand that but why is it that so many are targetting and for what benefit? Islam is not responsible but yet it is attacked? The Pearl Harbour example is a good one, during the war years and a decade afterwards, Japan, its' people and its' culture was attacked viscously and it took a long time for people to understand it was a combination of militarism and old history trying to fight back. Similarly over here, Germany, its people and culture was attacked until only twenty years ago even though we all know it was National Socialism that was responsible. In both cases their populations allowed it to happen and that needs to be worked on.
The trouble is that the muddling of responsibility affects either the form or the perception of the response. The war on terror to a degree is being successful but the subsidary responses by politicians and populations is something else.
The verbal (and sometimes physical) attacks against Muslims in the West, the pushing of rather ignorant assumptions about life in Muslims countries and the totally unacceptable situation of allowing radical Muslims in the West to push their hate and non-allegences frankly backfires and damages the case for everyone.
The battle against radical Islamists in the West needs to be won whilst not damaging their Muslim communities and relations with Muslim countries. How can that be done? It has to be because kicking-out or targetting all Muslims is pure bigotry and defeats the very concepts of freedom and liberty that the West holds so dear. The solution is in fact to actively support them and encourage a Western-Muslim identity within our country. As long as you target them all they will naturally become defensive and support those that keep on telling them that Westerners are Crusaders and that they (Islamists) offer the only solution.
Like the Japanese and Germans, the realisation that they supported a powerful minority will hit them hard, that when they feel they have the support to shrug-off dictators, radical leaders, militant masters, they not only do so but in the end become good examples of what is possible. Like the Arab Sprin in some countries, another is possible against radicals claiming to represent their faith
AOW, It's a satonic religion and I will never be ok with that! Look at the greif Bachmann got for saying she did witchcraft! I'll pick witchcraft over pisslam! That is how horrible that cult is!!!
Do you mean Christine O'Donnell? She admitted to dabbling in Witchcraft (mine you it was not Satanism but Wicken). The only reference to Bachmann and witchcraft was calling certain policies similar to it.
Also, why not expand on why you think Islam is Satanic? I find nothing Satanic in it at all, nothing that fits the definition nor any logic in making wide statements on it. I do not agree with it but it sounds over the top to simply say that 1.6 billion people are Satanists or worshipping a faith that apparently out of the 14 hundred years of scrutiny, study and participation that only yourself (and whatever website you gleamed this fact from) has come to that conclussion now.
Doc wasn't talking to you and yeah I know about WICCA. I think they are all nuts too!
AOW hope you got the link I sent you. Tell doc I don't like wasting time on his kind! Besides his tactic breeds useful idiots for pislamics ( pobably is one) and since when is being against religion bigoted! Not a question for the troll of pislam because it just didn't get it!
"Avoidance by a slap or attempted wit never proves a value" - Sir Winston Churchill during his final speech in the House of Commons.
You post on an open internet chat, your then open to comments by others. Avoid the point, that is your right, but I retain the right to question.
"since when is being against religion bigoted"
big·ot (bgt) n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing sex, race, ethnicity, religion or spirituality, nationality, inter-regional prejudice, gender and sexual orientation, homelessness, various medical disorders particularly behavioral disorders and addictive disorders. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or world views.
You may have the last word and I shall have the last thought of you. In which by the way isn't very good.
I will spare you by not sharing. Good riddance and I will ignore you from here out. You are a time waster I come here only for the author of this blog. I happen to like the author and hope that the author stays on track.
D Charles, The solution is in fact to actively support them and encourage a Western-Muslim identity within our country.
In the area where I live, the above is certainly being done. But if it comes back to "burn us," there will be a hideous reaction.
Ultimately, in a free society, those who wish to live in enclaves of whatever type cannot be forced to integrate and assimilate.
The verbal (and sometimes physical) attacks against Muslims in the West
Verbal attacks here in the United States fall under First Amendment rights. Indeed, for that same reason, Salafists can spew hate in mosques on a regular basis.
As for physical attacks, they have few and far between in the United States. It is to the credit of Americans that all hell didn't break loose right after 9/11. Indeed, I was expecting that the Falls Church Mosque would be fired upon: a lot of military and retired military live in that neighborhood. But cooler heads prevailed.
As for Islam itself, let me put it this way: it has "warts." I'm not for covering up the "warts" of any ideology because the truth is the truth -- I'm referring to historical truth and tenets, not to theology. I do not favor demonization, nor do I favor whitewash.
it sounds over the top to simply say that 1.6 billion people are Satanists
Christianity has traditionally taken the my-way-or-the-highway position about what is the true faith ("No man cometh unto the Father but by Me" and other teachings of Christ). Christianity has also traditionally taken the position that all sin, temptation, and false religion are of the devil. What has changed is that Christianity no longer burns people at the stake or hunts down apostates, heretics, etc., as of many centuries of doing just that. Can we say the same about Islam some 1400 years later? Yes, Islam is a younger faith than Christianity; but the fact that the state no longer enforces the "punishments" of Christianity is a substantially different from how Islam and state are still united in many Islamic countries.
AOW, one of the reason why I like your blog is in fact your comments. They are sound and logical and most times I cannot argue with them (unlike others).
I suppor the exposure of the warts and they need to be exposed before dealt with. The problem, as I see it, is there are those that would cut-off the limbs or burn the host instead of the wart.
I actually believe that the excuse of Islam being a newer faith never sticks. The world is smaller, communication and standards are clear enough. The backwardness of life is often the catalyst for abuse and that is why there are still Christian communities that are frankly following the violent old way and certainly using faith as an excuse to control others (which is the problem in the Muslim world).
Your First Amendment Rights are a great symbol to what makes America great but I sometimes wonder if the spirit of its' authors is being practiced. There is a difference between the rights to freedom of speech and collective or coordinated hate. Groups that for poltical advantage or simply to be seen as important pushing hate, bigotry or injustice is not freedom of speech (even though they claim it). I put that same standard on radical Muslims and I equally condemn them and groups like CAIR who provide tacit support for groups that show allegiances outside America and to America's enemies. Again, that is not freedom of speech when it becomes collective, political and broadcasted.
I always love the ratbags. They make a comment but have neither the care nor the courage to discuss them, simply they try the supriority side and ignore you. Logic is the first to walk out the door but that is expected. In this case this "dcat" makes a wild and frankly bigoted comment says they are not "talking to you" but in fact does by answering in part and of course making immature personal insults. Then makes another comment, another insult but still avoiding the main topic all together which was in fact the point.
That is why I love working in the legal system and in courts. Simply put there is no place for "bull-sh*t" and just presentable facts, evidence and the expression of intention becomes exposed.
So since "dcat" made an open comment then of course those comments are there to be judged, viewed and commented on. If not, then it should have been an email. Now this person has every right to express thier views, that is certainly freedom of speech that I do consider sacred, I have an equal and I believe equally valid right to express my opinion about those views.
I have always stood for, and have expressed it here, that I fully support condemning the condemnable, pointing fingers at ugliness, the injust and that includes radicals, terrorists, militant Islamists, etc. However, it must be based on a platform that is unshakable, moral, factual and most of all - in context. I do not care if the basis or the objective is honorable and just, if it cannot meet this criteria then it should not be presented at all. To do otherwise puts the presenter in the same category as the condemned, looks stupid and does harm to any good points. Two wrongs NEVER makes a right.
That is why I can never respect or give credibility to comments like that of "dcat" and I should note that the blog associated with it is in my books - a farce.
Of course this certainly is not my blog, I do not run it and I will not make this comment again out of respect for what is a very good example of how to do so correctly. I simply want to make a point. My apologies and thanks to AOW and ironically the word verification on this post "profound".
AOW, See this is what they resort to when you dissmiss their ideology. They don't really want your comment they just work you to their perversion of grooming. Sort of what half wit shrinks do. LOL
They just keep coming back for more never satisfied with your answers and I can spot them right away!
Frustration with this one is hilarious. Poke, poke, poke. I know I'm not helping but it seems to me AOW your answers should have been enough for the fool.
"their idiolgy". I guess the bigotry extends to us of the Catholic Faith as well. Then again, if my ideology includes the need for logic, avoiding ignorance and bigotry then yes, we in the established Church of Rome certainly have a problem.
Additionally, we who work in the courts use the term called the "faeces factor" (I kid you not) for those that use the smear and flinging style of responses, something that the tribunal judges consider not only unacceptable but contemptuous.
Dcat and D Charles, Obviously, you two are not going to agree. And that's fine by me -- that you don't agree. Passionate convictions do often result in heated exchanges.
That said, no "f bombs," please, at my site. Students (Christian homeschoolers) read this web site.
Not that either of you are hurling f bombs. I'm just giving you the warning not to do so as you might be engaging in my absence. At the moment, the homefront in this household requires my attention.
Apart from being of a more subtle and conservative generation, I never go for vulgarity. I am an "Eaton boy" (as was Churchill) and it was simply drilled (and beaten) out of us.
In fact I would have done the "we will have to agree to disagree" phrase except that the party in question was sniping whilst feigning ignoring me, such contradictions! Perhaps it is one of these students you were talking about?
AOW, losing my temper tends to make me dig my heals in and provoke until my point is made. Also, and this is certainly a school trait, allowing others to rant on until they dig themselves so deep they go over the edge when exposed.
Churchill called it the Eaton Examination and he was an expert at it. You ask, you get silence, you provoke and then you stare with an occasional glare and stare some more. Even the best of British politicans could not handle it. It also creats that rather biting tounge. You may recall the rather famous rotort from Churchill when one woman said to Churchill's face at a part 'if you were my husband I would put poison in your wine' in which he replied 'and if you, madam, were my wife - I would drink it'. That is Eaton.
You may blog with this Dcat and that person may very well be a good friend but neither my generation, schooling nor life-experiences has any time nor respect for he/she/it.
D Charles, You may blog with this Dcat and that person may very well be a good friend but neither my generation, schooling nor life-experiences has any time nor respect for he/she/it.
"However I will disagree with the general theme that seems to be basically targetting all Muslims and Islam itself (because you cannot have one without the other)."
Disagree all you want. In your case it seems to feed some narcissistic craving for feeling morally superior.
I wouldn't tolerate a house full of people that shelter mass murderers nor will I tolerate a religion or nation that does the same thing, even if it is only tacit approval.
" I have to a degree spent 30 plus years working with and associating with Muslims, I travel to Muslim countries regularly, I know scholars and have discussed and studied their faith. Additionally I subscribe to a strong principle of hard facts and not emotions running my conclusions."
I'm sure you have been told this before. This isn't about you! If it had been your friends and family in the WTC I'm sure you would be whistling a different tune.
"Sure the subject of 9/11 is emotive and painful and that emotion and pain has been used to the maximum by profiteers. These profiteers are those that like to keep the heat on the subject going, sell books or simply get their names or their websites as the leaders and topics of the day."
Oh, I see, and these unnamed profiteers wouldn't happen to be people like Robert Spencer who know far more about Islam than you purport to know. I mean you do speak and read fluent Arabic and actually have studied Islam and its history instead of just read one or two books on the subject, haven't you?
"We all know that the Muslim world is suffering with radicalism, militant Islamists, hard-line oonservatism and they need to sort that huge mess out as it is affecting the entire globe. Terrorism exists, is dangerous and they have declared war on us and we must respond likewise with force."
Its hard to do when knot heads insist on trying to make this a legal problem instead of a war situation complete with subversives, fifth columnists and spies and every captured Jahadi insists he's just a poor goat herder.
"However, the facts remain the same - the majority of the world's 1.6 (or whatever the number) Billion Muslims are not hard-liners, radicals, militant Islamists or terrorists. They are mostly either victims of the above, poor, uneducated and mostly agriculture-based. They are spending the vast majority of their time just coping with day-to-day life to either survive or get ahead."
" Additionally, the Islamists in the West are often the issue and it must be realised that they are often promoting their version of Islam that often does not equate to the perseptions or life in the real and actual Muslim World. They get a greater hearing than they deserve and that is played in both their hands and the hands of professional haters who profiteer. One must wonder the logic behind this Crusader's item linked. They promote Anjem Chaudrey as being the representative of Islam. Like Spencer, promoting the fringe radical or hard-line version of Islam as being the only Islam serves who? Haters need someone to hate, that is the bottom line."
I see, Spencer should just shut up because he emphasizes "the fringe radical or hard-line version of Islam", which is precisely what should be emphasized if we are serious about fighting.
Have you thought any of this through at all?
"Sure, target these Islamists here in the West, they have no place here and they thrive off the haters as well as the stupid liberal governments that give them rights to abue them in turn.
Also condemn the silence of the western Muslims whom because of their silence allows the ugliest part of us to rise and fill the gap that they should have taken.
I guess you haven't thought it through or you would realize that criticizing Islam as a whole should make the "moderates" (if there are any) reject their radical coreligionists.
In other words, if Islam doesn't stand for murder in its name what does it stand for?
Warren, it has never been about me and because your an "admin" it will obviously be all about you.
Somehow you confuse the notion that opinions should only exist if they agree with you - I suggest you take a hard long think about that.
"Oh, I see, and these unnamed profiteers wouldn't happen to be people like Robert Spencer who know far more about Islam than you purport to know. I mean you do speak and read fluent Arabic and actually have studied Islam and its history instead of just read one or two books on the subject, haven't you?"
Actually I speak, read and write moderate Arabic and I suspect having read more than you and for longer than most readers here existed on this planet. Have you worked and travelled in Muslims countries, I have over 30-plus years in many. But that is beside the point.
Spencer is not an academic and certainly not an academic nor a specialist in any form on Islam. His field of study is early Christian beliefs and practices and he has never been a teacher in that field also. So why is it that he calls himself an "acclaimed scholar of Islam”? Most would agree with me that in fact he is only a noise who spits out his garbage to a crowd that mostly "wish" it was so. Rather like a radical nationalist politician who barks all the easy sounding, exciting and scandalous words that get coverage. He gets all cranky when called a blogger but that is an insult to the bloggosphere that he craves to control. Ironically one of the victims of Spencer is the extreme-far-right itself who pay for his rubbish as they are his real target - simply put he lives off of them and feeds them what they want to hear, not what they need to.
I do not need to go on about Spencer such as his illogical pushing the line that only Salafi Muslims are real Muslims and the rest are bad or not serious. The public record of his trash exists. Everyone from FAIR, ALA and CHEA point out his lack of credentials, false claims to academia and complete lack of context. The simple truth is evident in his non-existance in anything main-stream be it media, academia or government. That says it all, he is only important in the small, fringe self-proclaimed anti-jihadist movement, certain far-right political movements including racist and fascist groups, and of course in his own head.
As you have tried here, Warren, you have followed the exact twisting of context to make your point - that simply never works. By arguing against Spencer who condemns terrorists and hate, I must therefore be a supporter of terrorism and hate. The answer to that argument is - get real.
I stand by every comment I have made that you have attempted to pick at. If you bothered to read what I say as others do; I condemn radical, militant and violent Islamists all the time but do I condemn Islam itself, no because that would be stupid and illogical. My beef has always been the silence that certainly is also condemnable, but in the same fashion of condemning the German, Austrian and Japanese populations for shutting up and yet I also understand the complexities of the situations that existed at that time and know that simplistic answers never work.
Warren, I ask with repsect that you stick to the issues rather than attempt to target me personally.
Clearly I have no respect for Spencer and those that similarly flood with examples of the actions of bad people and somehow paste it onto a totality that does not fit. I believe most of all in context and not go the simplistic way. I try looking at the world outside of a key-hole to also see the big picture.
You may not like me, I certainly have no appreciation for you, but what I certainly do is express my opinion and you can take it as you like. What I will not do though, is get sucked into some p*ssing match with those that support a fringe collective hate group that endlessly pretends to be something that they are not - academic, logical, accepted and thus main stream.
AOW tells me that as an Admin on this blog and you have the write to block my posts. She and I seem to get on fine, she knows my standards and point of view, and we can agree to disagree with decorum, can you?
Your comments are filled with self-referential tripe and opinion masquerading as fact. I have yet to read a single comment from you that wasn't filled with an endless stream of "I" and "my". You seem to think the whole of the world is written in the first person singular.
Doesn't it seem strange that everything proves "your" point. (keep telling yourself that, I'm sure it soothes a fragile ego) I have asked you several times if you could read or speak fluent Arabic and each time, until this, you have dined to answer and I have little reason to believe anything you say. I treat you with the respect you have earned. Live with it or leave.
I have never accused you of being a "supporter of terrorism and hate", that is just another in an endless series of straw-men that represent your illogical attempts at debate. As far as decorum goes, are you going to cry now?
There used to be a forum which the owner populated with (intentionally obvious) sock-puppets with silly names such as you would find in a Charles Dickens novel. One of those characters was a ridiculous pompous ass. You seem to be doing an, on the cheap, imitation of that character.
Your standards mean nothing to me. Oh yes, we can agree to disagree but expect my ridicule to continue.
FYI There are only two people I can think of who are banned from this blog and three or four that have had their comments deleted (except in the case of obvious spamming.) Even then, only the offending comments were removed. For the most part, their comments remain as a shrine (if you will) to their idiocy.
Warren, I write in my style because it is I who is writing it. If that is your problem, then so be it, a problem that is yours.
You can assume as you like but I suggest only three things if your going to "ridicule", which is of course your right (though somehow it is not mine in your books). Keep context, keep on subject and add substance. If you can do that, I am not only happy to discuss the subject but in fact you would have in fact improved one part of what you simply lack.
A much better alternative than harping and whining don't you think?
Jacqueline said... Islam is a truly evil and scary force. It is the thing nightmares are made of.
September 6, 2011 9:37:00 PM EDT
Indeed it is Jacquelin and there is nothing off the cuff about it either so don't let others silence you! If they try it is because you are right!
BTW they love putting women in their preverbal place and they think it is because their women know their place! It is only out of fear and ignorance! "brain washed" and brain dead!
Don't feed the so called intellect know it all here because then it will never leave!
This message is for Jacqueline! The one that is attacking her and myself need not apply their one and a half sense!
Speaking of uneducated off the cuff comments, D Charles, you have a knack for stepping in it. You've just insulted my wife.
You are definitely one of the most stupid twits I believe I've ever encountered.
Now, let me explain something. This isn't your blog. You do not decide context or subject nor are you in any position to make deals with me. I have a job I perform here which involves more than making you happy. Indeed, making you happy isn't included in the job description.
Now, I will avail you the opportunity to delete your comment to my wife before I delete it. If I have to delete it, I doubt that I will stop at that one comment.
"they love to put their women in their preverbial place"...
Who is "they"? Just another dcat bigotry excercise I guess.
I am assuming this is another broad sweep at the Muslim world, which though does certainly happen (ie sexism), it is still wrong and bigoted with many examples (not enough though) of successful women. Also, if you want to point fingers, why not take real examples of how the rape capitals of the world are Derban in South Africa and Port Morsbey in PNG. Or that Nepal has the highest domestic abuse stats or that spousal murder under the banner of honor killing is highest in India?
But of course dcat has no interest in context......
There is no problem on my part discussing Arab or Turkic sexism, violence against women, or the horrible affects Salafists have on thier communities, but as long as it is factual and contextual and not some retarded, mindless and bigoted garbage based on some inane desire to sound important or worse, based on some other form of zealous agenda.
Did you all hear about the islamic wife that beat herself to death on a coffee table?! Oh heck yeah and the examiner was afraid to open up the case again fearing probably his life ore was offered a lot of money by these wonderful human beings I’ll call cockroaches! The authorities will not reopen the case up!
Now we are being schooled here on twisted facts of D Charles that are the media's secrets!
I am not going to be silenced!
THank you AOW for the video on France! This is what will keep me going in putting up my shild from the vial wrath of this enemy of MY and YOUR freedom here!
Bigot's are those with sharia and every other half whit idia of rights when OUR rights ALREADY protect everyone!
WHOM ARE YOU CALLING A BIGOT YOU BIGOT! The West is the best and IT WILL STAY THAT WAY!
GOT THAT! YOU WALKING ENENCYCLOPEDIA RE-WRITTEN BY A THUG OF CULTERD MANURE!
What we have here is a bigot against our society and feels we need to bend backward for a choice few islamist because they are “moderate”.
Oh do we know this for a fact? No! Can we get them to swear on the koran?
NO because they are allowed to lie as long as it is for the sake of allah!
There you have it!
D Charles you are held in contempt! Refusing to go along with the Western Civilization inherent to the Constitution of the United States in which by the way protects all Citizens of the United States!
You sir are the bigot and anyone else that feels that we here in the United States need to contort to this vial ideology of islam!
Hiding behind a religion won’t get you a free pass either! We have what is called separation of church and state!
Dcat, Some people realize what that Ax signifies and others must learn the hard way. ;^)
BTW, last week I stopped at the gas station on the way home. It was almost 100 degrees F. A Muslim pulled in behind me and gobbled something at his wife/sister (or both)she was wearing almost the full get up but she wasn't wearing anything to cover her eyes. She promptly rolled the windows up on the car and set there looking miserable without the engine running in the heat.
If it had been kids or a dog I would have called the cops but they wouldn't have did anything for a full grown woman that willfully submitted to whim of her Muslim master.
Jacqueline, I unequivecably apologize if my retort was considered insulting and damaging. Most certainly I do not know you and your qualities.
AOW, you are correct, as I do not know your friend that my comment should have reflected that. Understand me, though, I believe that remarks such "Islam is evil" is anyone's right to say but as it stands, on my part is both an illogical and questionable statement. I would respond in like to any similar comments (and do) from Muslims, Hindus or Jews who say similar statements against Christianity or the others and regularly respond to comments that often appear on Spanish language blogs that call us Catholics as not being Christian.
Shall you be judged on your multi-posts versus your commitment to ignore me plus the avoidance of internet etiquette by posting in all-caps. I do, as it is a sign of weakness that usually means the con has been exposed.
I should add that ranting about the Constitution of the United States only does diservice to that great document and is basically useless in reference to myself, I am both a British and Spanish national. It is also rather questionable in logic to mention Western Civilization when a HUGE percentage of your comments is in sharp contrast to the values that we have worked hard and suffered to achieve them.
Do enlighten us in what I am somehow in "contempt" with in regards to Western values? Freedom of expression and freedom of religion which you are so keen to delete from a quarter of humanity?
Equally illogical is your constant (and very bigoted) comments that target incorrectly what you "think" or "wish" to be Islamic or in fact whatever-it-is your attempting to achieve here.
Your comments on "hiding behind religion" and the "separation of Church and State" is not only strange but frankly talks more about your inability to read (probably because your ranting gets in the way).
I hide behind no religion, my support and in fact participation in Catholic values is clear enough, it guides my puting emphasis on both reality and fairness in debate, not mindless arguments. As for separation between Church and State, I have no intention of ever accepting the Church to be anything other than a guide to my morals and a reminder of Christ's Sacrifice for us all so that we may learn from it, not abuse it.
A last comment. I already posted a definition of what is bigotry. Those that push Sharia legal systems are most certainly bigots and that should be pointed out as I most certainly do. Those Muslims that consder themselves superior to others including other Muslims are most certainly bigots. Equally so, those of us Christians that consider themselves suprior to Muslims are also bigots. Those Christians that throw "spin" and ignore both facts or simply "deny" are bigots AND hypocrits. I have pointed out your failures as being bigoted and you can shout and post as many times as you like but remember one thing dcat, I refer to your commitment to ignore me and your constant failure to do so.
Dcat, I was offline most of yesterday: doctors' appointments (2!) for Mr. AOW (hoping not to get bad news about those scans of his carotids), then off to Walgreen's to get flu shots -- and for me to get my first pneumonia shot (student with compromised immune system in my class). The afternoon, evening, and night brought us terrible t'storms and tornado warnings in the area. I dared not turn on my computer and was stressing out over how to get Mr. AOW into a safe part of the house!
I hate getting those shots I just mentioned because my arms get so sore and I drag around for at least two days.
I never got a pneumonia shot. I just signed the ok for the free flu shot. I didn't get one till last year after 20 years. I didn't trust them. I still don't but that first time two in one I passed and after that year I got one.
The grocery store is the worse place for germs. I hope the kids mom knows that!!
Storms I don't miss the tornatoes! I remember them when I lived in the midwest!
I read between the lines and know good people when I read it. Your good people and I know AOW is too. Had no idea about your relationship here. So nice to know you!
We welcome civil dialogue at Always on Watch. Comments that include any of the following are subject to deletion: 1. Any use of profanity or abusive language 2. Off topic comments and spam 3. Use of personal invective
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.
Note THIS at Muslims Against Crusades, dated September 1, 2011: "10 Years on and USA has Lost the War."
ReplyDeleteI'm not giving in or UP! My war will go on!
ReplyDeleteThat is one chilling web site, Always. I cruised around it a bit (now I'm sure that was recorded somewhere) and it was quite frightening the way it is so "matter of fact." We are not wrong to oppose mosques in our neighborhoods or Muslim schools in our midst.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm criticized for being Islamophobic. So be it!
ReplyDeleteI just perused that website and I must concur with Freedom it is indeed chilling because it is all true.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why people continue to believe that Islam is peaceful and when it most certainly is not.
Sure they're against Crusades: Anybody who fights them is their enemy.
ReplyDeleteStill, we're not doing much, are we......Islamists are counting on Political Correctness to hide them in its warm embrace. So far, so good.
At America's peril.
Islamophobia is simply common sense. When people really are out to kill you, it's smart to be afraid.
ReplyDeleteSomething I've never understood, is why any people would rather hate than love. Or at least like. Or maybe just simply not care. Islam is based on blind hatred and look how successful it is.
I just have a hard time accepting that human nature is so basically brutal even though I know that it is.
It's a good thing I wasn't born a Muslim, I don't think I would have been a very good one. :-)
I will take on a different spin here.
ReplyDeleteThe important point is, as someone else put it, the deafining silence from the moderate Muslims. No wonder they have such an image problem.
However I will disagree with the general theme that seems to be basically targetting all Muslims and Islam itself (because you cannot have one without the other).
I have to a degree spent 30 plus years working with and associating with Muslims, I travel to Muslim countries regularly, I know scholars and have discussed and studied their faith. Additionally I subscribe to a strong principle of hard facts and not emotions running my conclusions.
Sure the subject of 9/11 is emotive and painful and that emotion and pain has been used to the maximum by profiteers. These profiteers are those that like to keep the heat on the subject going, sell books or simply get their names or their websites as the leaders and topics of the day.
We all know that the Muslim world is suffering with radicalism, militant Islamists, hard-line oonservatism and they need to sort that huge mess out as it is affecting the entire globe. Terrorism exists, is dangerous and they have declared war on us and we must respond likewise with force.
However, the facts remain the same - the majority of the world's 1.6 (or whatever the number) Billion Muslims are not hard-liners, radicals, militant Islamists or terrorists. They are mostly either victims of the above, poor, uneducated and mostly agriculture-based. They are spending the vast majority of their time just coping with day-to-day life to either survive or get ahead.
Additionally, the Islamists in the West are often the issue and it must be realised that they are often promoting their version of Islam that often does not equate to the perseptions or life in the real and actual Muslim World. They get a greater hearing than they deserve and that is played in both their hands and the hands of professional haters who profiteer. One must wonder the logic behind this Crusader's item linked. They promote Anjem Chaudrey as being the representative of Islam. Like Spencer, promoting the fringe radical or hard-line version of Islam as being the only Islam serves who? Haters need someone to hate, that is the bottom line.
Sure, target these Islamists here in the West, they have no place here and they thrive off the haters as well as the stupid liberal governments that give them rights to abue them in turn.
Also condemn the silence of the western Muslims whom because of their silence allows the ugliest part of us to rise and fill the gap that they should have taken.
tekia
ReplyDeleteD Charles,
ReplyDeleteThe important point is, as someone else put it, the deafining silence from the moderate Muslims. No wonder they have such an image problem.
The issue of what is the will of Allah? That issue has played a huge part in the shaping of Islam over the centuries.
---------------
9/11 will remain an emotional issue. Certainly every American can still recall exactly what he was doing when he heard the news that the Twin Towers had fallen and that people were jumping out of windows to fall to their deaths in preference to immolation.
A few days after 9/11, a WW2 veteran said to me, "What happened the other day took my breath away. Just like Pearl Harbor did." He had tears in his eyes because he had hoped to live out his last days in a peaceful world instead of officiating at and attending funerals for our fallen as a result of 9/11. I won't type in his comments after the mutilation of American soldiers' bodies in Iraq. Typically a quiet man, he ranted about that.
Both 9/11 and the bombing of Pearl Harbor were world-changing events. Yet, the West wants to pretend that 9/11 was not a world-changing event.
the majority of the world's 1.6 (or whatever the number) Billion Muslims are not hard-liners, radicals, militant Islamists or terrorists
But it takes a relatively small number of hardliners to control the rest.
Frankly, I grow weary of Muslims' victimhood mentality. I wouldn't feel that way if "the majority" stepped up and "reclaimed" their faith -- publicly, vociferously and to the point of not being able to be ignored.
Some years back, Free Muslims Against Terrorism held a demonstration in Washington, D.C. Not many showed up.
AOW, good response there and I cannot fault them.
ReplyDeleteI was at my desk and I closed down my office and told all my staff to go home and not come the next day also. Though we were far aware the implications was global and at the time we had no idea if this was the start of something immediate.
There are two clear elements that I see and i think they are often muddled and that is sad and ultimately important. The first is the responsibility and the second is the response.
The responsibility is muddled and abused byt hose seeking advantage. We know about global jihadism and its links and that is responsible. Though yes we can say the muted response is condemnable and should be pointed out, it is not responsible as is the faith of Islam or the global Muslim population. I think you understand that but why is it that so many are targetting and for what benefit? Islam is not responsible but yet it is attacked? The Pearl Harbour example is a good one, during the war years and a decade afterwards, Japan, its' people and its' culture was attacked viscously and it took a long time for people to understand it was a combination of militarism and old history trying to fight back. Similarly over here, Germany, its people and culture was attacked until only twenty years ago even though we all know it was National Socialism that was responsible. In both cases their populations allowed it to happen and that needs to be worked on.
The trouble is that the muddling of responsibility affects either the form or the perception of the response. The war on terror to a degree is being successful but the subsidary responses by politicians and populations is something else.
The verbal (and sometimes physical) attacks against Muslims in the West, the pushing of rather ignorant assumptions about life in Muslims countries and the totally unacceptable situation of allowing radical Muslims in the West to push their hate and non-allegences frankly backfires and damages the case for everyone.
The battle against radical Islamists in the West needs to be won whilst not damaging their Muslim communities and relations with Muslim countries. How can that be done? It has to be because kicking-out or targetting all Muslims is pure bigotry and defeats the very concepts of freedom and liberty that the West holds so dear. The solution is in fact to actively support them and encourage a Western-Muslim identity within our country. As long as you target them all they will naturally become defensive and support those that keep on telling them that Westerners are Crusaders and that they (Islamists) offer the only solution.
Like the Japanese and Germans, the realisation that they supported a powerful minority will hit them hard, that when they feel they have the support to shrug-off dictators, radical leaders, militant masters, they not only do so but in the end become good examples of what is possible. Like the Arab Sprin in some countries, another is possible against radicals claiming to represent their faith
AOW,
ReplyDeleteIt's a satonic religion and I will never be ok with that! Look at the greif Bachmann got for saying she did witchcraft! I'll pick witchcraft over pisslam! That is how horrible that cult is!!!
dcat, a couple of questions.
ReplyDeleteDo you mean Christine O'Donnell? She admitted to dabbling in Witchcraft (mine you it was not Satanism but Wicken). The only reference to Bachmann and witchcraft was calling certain policies similar to it.
Also, why not expand on why you think Islam is Satanic? I find nothing Satanic in it at all, nothing that fits the definition nor any logic in making wide statements on it. I do not agree with it but it sounds over the top to simply say that 1.6 billion people are Satanists or worshipping a faith that apparently out of the 14 hundred years of scrutiny, study and participation that only yourself (and whatever website you gleamed this fact from) has come to that conclussion now.
Doc wasn't talking to you and yeah I know about WICCA. I think they are all nuts too!
ReplyDeleteAOW hope you got the link I sent you. Tell doc I don't like wasting time on his kind! Besides his tactic breeds useful idiots for pislamics ( pobably is one) and since when is being against religion bigoted! Not a question for the troll of pislam because it just didn't get it!
"Avoidance by a slap or attempted wit never proves a value" - Sir Winston Churchill during his final speech in the House of Commons.
ReplyDeleteYou post on an open internet chat, your then open to comments by others. Avoid the point, that is your right, but I retain the right to question.
"since when is being against religion bigoted"
big·ot (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing sex, race, ethnicity, religion or spirituality, nationality, inter-regional prejudice, gender and sexual orientation, homelessness, various medical disorders particularly behavioral disorders and addictive disorders. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or world views.
If I want to go pishing I get a fishing poll!
ReplyDeleteInnuendoes some spew never have the correct data.
You may have the last word and I shall have the last thought of you. In which by the way isn't very good.
I will spare you by not sharing. Good riddance and I will ignore you from here out. You are a time waster I come here only for the author of this blog. I happen to like the author and hope that the author stays on track.
Never give up and by all means never give up AOW!
AOW,
ReplyDeleteYou know besides pisslamist the socialist are showing up all over the place! It worked so well in Europe NOT!
Dcat,
ReplyDeleteYes, I got the link. Thanks.
I was off the web yesterday from the afternoon until this morning to get some much needed r&r.
D Charles,
ReplyDeleteThe solution is in fact to actively support them and encourage a Western-Muslim identity within our country.
In the area where I live, the above is certainly being done. But if it comes back to "burn us," there will be a hideous reaction.
Ultimately, in a free society, those who wish to live in enclaves of whatever type cannot be forced to integrate and assimilate.
The verbal (and sometimes physical) attacks against Muslims in the West
Verbal attacks here in the United States fall under First Amendment rights. Indeed, for that same reason, Salafists can spew hate in mosques on a regular basis.
As for physical attacks, they have few and far between in the United States. It is to the credit of Americans that all hell didn't break loose right after 9/11. Indeed, I was expecting that the Falls Church Mosque would be fired upon: a lot of military and retired military live in that neighborhood. But cooler heads prevailed.
As for Islam itself, let me put it this way: it has "warts." I'm not for covering up the "warts" of any ideology because the truth is the truth -- I'm referring to historical truth and tenets, not to theology. I do not favor demonization, nor do I favor whitewash.
it sounds over the top to simply say that 1.6 billion people are Satanists
Christianity has traditionally taken the my-way-or-the-highway position about what is the true faith ("No man cometh unto the Father but by Me" and other teachings of Christ). Christianity has also traditionally taken the position that all sin, temptation, and false religion are of the devil. What has changed is that Christianity no longer burns people at the stake or hunts down apostates, heretics, etc., as of many centuries of doing just that. Can we say the same about Islam some 1400 years later? Yes, Islam is a younger faith than Christianity; but the fact that the state no longer enforces the "punishments" of Christianity is a substantially different from how Islam and state are still united in many Islamic countries.
AOW, one of the reason why I like your blog is in fact your comments. They are sound and logical and most times I cannot argue with them (unlike others).
ReplyDeleteI suppor the exposure of the warts and they need to be exposed before dealt with. The problem, as I see it, is there are those that would cut-off the limbs or burn the host instead of the wart.
This morning after Sunday Mass I set in a café with friends as I have done regularly for almost 30 years discussing our warts. The Catholics of Gibraltar are a very vocal community on what we believe are the negatives within our community - including at Church level.
I actually believe that the excuse of Islam being a newer faith never sticks. The world is smaller, communication and standards are clear enough. The backwardness of life is often the catalyst for abuse and that is why there are still Christian communities that are frankly following the violent old way and certainly using faith as an excuse to control others (which is the problem in the Muslim world).
Your First Amendment Rights are a great symbol to what makes America great but I sometimes wonder if the spirit of its' authors is being practiced. There is a difference between the rights to freedom of speech and collective or coordinated hate. Groups that for poltical advantage or simply to be seen as important pushing hate, bigotry or injustice is not freedom of speech (even though they claim it). I put that same standard on radical Muslims and I equally condemn them and groups like CAIR who provide tacit support for groups that show allegiances outside America and to America's enemies. Again, that is not freedom of speech when it becomes collective, political and broadcasted.
I always love the ratbags. They make a comment but have neither the care nor the courage to discuss them, simply they try the supriority side and ignore you. Logic is the first to walk out the door but that is expected. In this case this "dcat" makes a wild and frankly bigoted comment says they are not "talking to you" but in fact does by answering in part and of course making immature personal insults. Then makes another comment, another insult but still avoiding the main topic all together which was in fact the point.
ReplyDeleteThat is why I love working in the legal system and in courts. Simply put there is no place for "bull-sh*t" and just presentable facts, evidence and the expression of intention becomes exposed.
So since "dcat" made an open comment then of course those comments are there to be judged, viewed and commented on. If not, then it should have been an email. Now this person has every right to express thier views, that is certainly freedom of speech that I do consider sacred, I have an equal and I believe equally valid right to express my opinion about those views.
I have always stood for, and have expressed it here, that I fully support condemning the condemnable, pointing fingers at ugliness, the injust and that includes radicals, terrorists, militant Islamists, etc. However, it must be based on a platform that is unshakable, moral, factual and most of all - in context. I do not care if the basis or the objective is honorable and just, if it cannot meet this criteria then it should not be presented at all. To do otherwise puts the presenter in the same category as the condemned, looks stupid and does harm to any good points. Two wrongs NEVER makes a right.
That is why I can never respect or give credibility to comments like that of "dcat" and I should note that the blog associated with it is in my books - a farce.
Of course this certainly is not my blog, I do not run it and I will not make this comment again out of respect for what is a very good example of how to do so correctly. I simply want to make a point. My apologies and thanks to AOW and ironically the word verification on this post "profound".
God Bless.
AOW,
ReplyDeleteSee this is what they resort to when you dissmiss their ideology. They don't really want your comment they just work you to their perversion of grooming. Sort of what half wit shrinks do. LOL
They just keep coming back for more never satisfied with your answers and I can spot them right away!
Frustration with this one is hilarious. Poke, poke, poke. I know I'm not helping but it seems to me AOW your answers should have been enough for the fool.
He seems to be a miserable soul... Pitty
So much for ignoring, eh? What was it that Forrest Gump's Mom said? ......
ReplyDelete"their idiolgy". I guess the bigotry extends to us of the Catholic Faith as well. Then again, if my ideology includes the need for logic, avoiding ignorance and bigotry then yes, we in the established Church of Rome certainly have a problem.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, we who work in the courts use the term called the "faeces factor" (I kid you not) for those that use the smear and flinging style of responses, something that the tribunal judges consider not only unacceptable but contemptuous.
Dcat and D Charles,
ReplyDeleteObviously, you two are not going to agree. And that's fine by me -- that you don't agree. Passionate convictions do often result in heated exchanges.
That said, no "f bombs," please, at my site. Students (Christian homeschoolers) read this web site.
Not that either of you are hurling f bombs. I'm just giving you the warning not to do so as you might be engaging in my absence. At the moment, the homefront in this household requires my attention.
AOW,
ReplyDeleteApart from being of a more subtle and conservative generation, I never go for vulgarity. I am an "Eaton boy" (as was Churchill) and it was simply drilled (and beaten) out of us.
In fact I would have done the "we will have to agree to disagree" phrase except that the party in question was sniping whilst feigning ignoring me, such contradictions! Perhaps it is one of these students you were talking about?
D Charles,
ReplyDeletePerhaps it is one of these students you were talking about?
Dcat isn't one of my students, I can assure you. BTW, most of my students don't make any comments here.
Members of the conservative generation do sometimes lose tempers, too.
the party in question was sniping whilst feigning ignoring me, such contradictions
A different style, and I've seen it before from other bloggers.
I do tolerate a lot of different styles from commenters -- with some limitations.
D Charles,
ReplyDeleteBTW, Dcat is a blog friend -- never mind that our styles are so different.
I have quite an eclectic assortment of blog friends. After all, I've been blogging since mid-2005.
AOW, losing my temper tends to make me dig my heals in and provoke until my point is made. Also, and this is certainly a school trait, allowing others to rant on until they dig themselves so deep they go over the edge when exposed.
ReplyDeleteChurchill called it the Eaton Examination and he was an expert at it. You ask, you get silence, you provoke and then you stare with an occasional glare and stare some more. Even the best of British politicans could not handle it. It also creats that rather biting tounge. You may recall the rather famous rotort from Churchill when one woman said to Churchill's face at a part 'if you were my husband I would put poison in your wine' in which he replied 'and if you, madam, were my wife - I would drink it'. That is Eaton.
You may blog with this Dcat and that person may very well be a good friend but neither my generation, schooling nor life-experiences has any time nor respect for he/she/it.
D Charles,
ReplyDeleteYou may blog with this Dcat and that person may very well be a good friend but neither my generation, schooling nor life-experiences has any time nor respect for he/she/it.
Acknowledged and understood.
Thank you for your frankness.
Bloggers do come in all varieties and styles.
D Charles QC said...
ReplyDelete"However I will disagree with the general theme that seems to be basically targetting all Muslims and Islam itself (because you cannot have one without the other)."
Disagree all you want. In your case it seems to feed some narcissistic craving for feeling morally superior.
I wouldn't tolerate a house full of people that shelter mass murderers nor will I tolerate a religion or nation that does the same thing, even if it is only tacit approval.
" I have to a degree spent 30 plus years working with and associating with Muslims, I travel to Muslim countries regularly, I know scholars and have discussed and studied their faith. Additionally I subscribe to a strong principle of hard facts and not emotions running my conclusions."
I'm sure you have been told this before. This isn't about you! If it had been your friends and family in the WTC I'm sure you would be whistling a different tune.
"Sure the subject of 9/11 is emotive and painful and that emotion and pain has been used to the maximum by profiteers. These profiteers are those that like to keep the heat on the subject going, sell books or simply get their names or their websites as the leaders and topics of the day."
Oh, I see, and these unnamed profiteers wouldn't happen to be people like Robert Spencer who know far more about Islam than you purport to know. I mean you do speak and read fluent Arabic and actually have studied Islam and its history instead of just read one or two books on the subject, haven't you?
"We all know that the Muslim world is suffering with radicalism, militant Islamists, hard-line oonservatism and they need to sort that huge mess out as it is affecting the entire globe. Terrorism exists, is dangerous and they have declared war on us and we must respond likewise with force."
Its hard to do when knot heads insist on trying to make this a legal problem instead of a war situation complete with subversives, fifth columnists and spies and every captured Jahadi insists he's just a poor goat herder.
"However, the facts remain the same - the majority of the world's 1.6 (or whatever the number) Billion Muslims are not hard-liners, radicals, militant Islamists or terrorists. They are mostly either victims of the above, poor, uneducated and mostly agriculture-based. They are spending the vast majority of their time just coping with day-to-day life to either survive or get ahead."
So cry me a river.
CONTINUED
" Additionally, the Islamists in the West are often the issue and it must be realised that they are often promoting their version of Islam that often does not equate to the perseptions or life in the real and actual Muslim World. They get a greater hearing than they deserve and that is played in both their hands and the hands of professional haters who profiteer. One must wonder the logic behind this Crusader's item linked. They promote Anjem Chaudrey as being the representative of Islam. Like Spencer, promoting the fringe radical or hard-line version of Islam as being the only Islam serves who? Haters need someone to hate, that is the bottom line."
ReplyDeleteI see, Spencer should just shut up because he emphasizes "the fringe radical or hard-line version of Islam", which is precisely what should be emphasized if we are serious about fighting.
Have you thought any of this through at all?
"Sure, target these Islamists here in the West, they have no place here and they thrive off the haters as well as the stupid liberal governments that give them rights to abue them in turn.
Also condemn the silence of the western Muslims whom because of their silence allows the ugliest part of us to rise and fill the gap that they should have taken.
I guess you haven't thought it through or you would realize that criticizing Islam as a whole should make the "moderates" (if there are any) reject their radical coreligionists.
In other words, if Islam doesn't stand for murder in its name what does it stand for?
Warren, it has never been about me and because your an "admin" it will obviously be all about you.
ReplyDeleteSomehow you confuse the notion that opinions should only exist if they agree with you - I suggest you take a hard long think about that.
"Oh, I see, and these unnamed profiteers wouldn't happen to be people like Robert Spencer who know far more about Islam than you purport to know. I mean you do speak and read fluent Arabic and actually have studied Islam and its history instead of just read one or two books on the subject, haven't you?"
Actually I speak, read and write moderate Arabic and I suspect having read more than you and for longer than most readers here existed on this planet. Have you worked and travelled in Muslims countries, I have over 30-plus years in many. But that is beside the point.
Spencer is not an academic and certainly not an academic nor a specialist in any form on Islam. His field of study is early Christian beliefs and practices and he has never been a teacher in that field also. So why is it that he calls himself an "acclaimed scholar of Islam”? Most would agree with me that in fact he is only a noise who spits out his garbage to a crowd that mostly "wish" it was so. Rather like a radical nationalist politician who barks all the easy sounding, exciting and scandalous words that get coverage. He gets all cranky when called a blogger but that is an insult to the bloggosphere that he craves to control. Ironically one of the victims of Spencer is the extreme-far-right itself who pay for his rubbish as they are his real target - simply put he lives off of them and feeds them what they want to hear, not what they need to.
I do not need to go on about Spencer such as his illogical pushing the line that only Salafi Muslims are real Muslims and the rest are bad or not serious. The public record of his trash exists. Everyone from FAIR, ALA and CHEA point out his lack of credentials, false claims to academia and complete lack of context. The simple truth is evident in his non-existance in anything main-stream be it media, academia or government. That says it all, he is only important in the small, fringe self-proclaimed anti-jihadist movement, certain far-right political movements including racist and fascist groups, and of course in his own head.
.... continued
....
ReplyDeleteAs you have tried here, Warren, you have followed the exact twisting of context to make your point - that simply never works. By arguing against Spencer who condemns terrorists and hate, I must therefore be a supporter of terrorism and hate. The answer to that argument is - get real.
I stand by every comment I have made that you have attempted to pick at. If you bothered to read what I say as others do; I condemn radical, militant and violent Islamists all the time but do I condemn Islam itself, no because that would be stupid and illogical. My beef has always been the silence that certainly is also condemnable, but in the same fashion of condemning the German, Austrian and Japanese populations for shutting up and yet I also understand the complexities of the situations that existed at that time and know that simplistic answers never work.
Warren, I ask with repsect that you stick to the issues rather than attempt to target me personally.
Clearly I have no respect for Spencer and those that similarly flood with examples of the actions of bad people and somehow paste it onto a totality that does not fit. I believe most of all in context and not go the simplistic way. I try looking at the world outside of a key-hole to also see the big picture.
You may not like me, I certainly have no appreciation for you, but what I certainly do is express my opinion and you can take it as you like. What I will not do though, is get sucked into some p*ssing match with those that support a fringe collective hate group that endlessly pretends to be something that they are not - academic, logical, accepted and thus main stream.
AOW tells me that as an Admin on this blog and you have the write to block my posts. She and I seem to get on fine, she knows my standards and point of view, and we can agree to disagree with decorum, can you?
D Charles,
ReplyDeleteHave you ever heard of projection?
Your comments are filled with self-referential tripe and opinion masquerading as fact. I have yet to read a single comment from you that wasn't filled with an endless stream of "I" and "my". You seem to think the whole of the world is written in the first person singular.
Doesn't it seem strange that everything proves "your" point. (keep telling yourself that, I'm sure it soothes
a fragile ego) I have asked you several times if you could read or speak fluent Arabic and each time, until this, you have dined to answer and I have little reason to believe anything you say. I treat you with the respect you have earned. Live with it or leave.
I have never accused you of being a "supporter of terrorism and hate", that is just another in an endless series of straw-men that represent your illogical attempts at debate.
As far as decorum goes, are you going to cry now?
There used to be a forum which the owner populated with (intentionally obvious) sock-puppets with silly names such as you would find in a Charles Dickens novel. One of those characters was a ridiculous pompous ass. You seem to be doing an, on the cheap, imitation of that character.
Your standards mean nothing to me. Oh yes, we can agree to disagree but expect my ridicule to continue.
FYI
There are only two people I can think of who are banned from this blog and three or four that have had their comments deleted (except in the case of obvious spamming.) Even then, only the offending comments were removed. For the most part, their comments remain as a shrine (if you will) to their idiocy.
Warren and D Charles,
ReplyDeleteI see that you two have been having "a good time" here in my absence.
Carry on.
I'm swamped with work and homefront obligations at the moment.
Warren, I write in my style because it is I who is writing it. If that is your problem, then so be it, a problem that is yours.
ReplyDeleteYou can assume as you like but I suggest only three things if your going to "ridicule", which is of course your right (though somehow it is not mine in your books). Keep context, keep on subject and add substance. If you can do that, I am not only happy to discuss the subject but in fact you would have in fact improved one part of what you simply lack.
A much better alternative than harping and whining don't you think?
Islam is a truly evil and scary force. It is the thing nightmares are made of.
ReplyDeleteJacqueline said...
ReplyDeleteIslam is a truly evil and scary force. It is the thing nightmares are made of.
September 6, 2011 9:37:00 PM EDT
Indeed it is Jacquelin and there is nothing off the cuff about it either so don't let others silence you! If they try it is because you are right!
BTW they love putting women in their preverbal place and they think it is because their women know their place! It is only out of fear and ignorance! "brain washed" and brain dead!
Don't feed the so called intellect know it all here because then it will never leave!
This message is for Jacqueline! The one that is attacking her and myself need not apply their one and a half sense!
Speaking of uneducated off the cuff comments, D Charles, you have a knack for stepping in it. You've just insulted my wife.
ReplyDeleteYou are definitely one of the most stupid twits I believe I've ever encountered.
Now, let me explain something. This isn't your blog. You do not decide context or subject nor are you in any position to make deals with me. I have a job I perform here which involves more than making you happy. Indeed, making you happy isn't included in the job description.
Now, I will avail you the opportunity to delete your comment to my wife before I delete it. If I have to delete it, I doubt that I will stop at that one comment.
"they love to put their women in their preverbial place"...
ReplyDeleteWho is "they"? Just another dcat bigotry excercise I guess.
I am assuming this is another broad sweep at the Muslim world, which though does certainly happen (ie sexism), it is still wrong and bigoted with many examples (not enough though) of successful women. Also, if you want to point fingers, why not take real examples of how the rape capitals of the world are Derban in South Africa and Port Morsbey in PNG. Or that Nepal has the highest domestic abuse stats or that spousal murder under the banner of honor killing is highest in India?
But of course dcat has no interest in context......
There is no problem on my part discussing Arab or Turkic sexism, violence against women, or the horrible affects Salafists have on thier communities, but as long as it is factual and contextual and not some retarded, mindless and bigoted garbage based on some inane desire to sound important or worse, based on some other form of zealous agenda.
Warren,
ReplyDeleteI wonder why he likes it here so much? No life I guess.
Did you all hear about the islamic wife that beat herself to death on a coffee table?! Oh heck yeah and the examiner was afraid to open up the case again fearing probably his life ore was offered a lot of money by these wonderful human beings I’ll call cockroaches!
ReplyDeleteThe authorities will not reopen the case up!
Now we are being schooled here on twisted facts of D Charles that are the media's secrets!
I am not going to be silenced!
THank you AOW for the video on France! This is what will keep me going in putting up my shild from the vial wrath of this enemy of MY and YOUR freedom here!
Bigot's are those with sharia and every other half whit idia of rights when OUR rights ALREADY protect everyone!
WHOM ARE YOU CALLING A BIGOT YOU BIGOT! The West is the best and IT WILL STAY THAT WAY!
GOT THAT! YOU WALKING ENENCYCLOPEDIA RE-WRITTEN BY A THUG OF CULTERD MANURE!
Ladies and Gentle men of AOW,
ReplyDeleteWhat we have here is a bigot against our society and feels we need to bend backward for a choice few islamist because they are “moderate”.
Oh do we know this for a fact? No! Can we get them to swear on the koran?
NO because they are allowed to lie as long as it is for the sake of allah!
There you have it!
D Charles you are held in contempt! Refusing to go along with the Western Civilization inherent to the Constitution of the United States in which by the way protects all Citizens of the United States!
You sir are the bigot and anyone else that feels that we here in the United States need to contort to this vial ideology of islam!
Hiding behind a religion won’t get you a free pass either! We have what is called separation of church and state!
Warren,
ReplyDeleteDull that ax it will make things too easy! We want him to suffer a bit first!
That is the pisslamic way don't you know.
Dcat, Some people realize what that Ax signifies and others must learn the hard way. ;^)
ReplyDeleteBTW, last week I stopped at the gas station on the way home. It was almost 100 degrees F. A Muslim pulled in behind me and gobbled something at his wife/sister (or both)she was wearing almost the full get up but she wasn't wearing anything to cover her eyes. She promptly rolled the windows up on the car and set there looking miserable without the engine running in the heat.
If it had been kids or a dog I would have called the cops but they wouldn't have did anything for a full grown woman that willfully submitted to whim of her Muslim master.
Warren,
ReplyDeleteYou would have also been the bad guy! They would have find you for calling 911!
What's the matter with you she is doing it for allah!
D Charles,
ReplyDeleteLet me explain something else to you. Jackie is one of my dearest friends in the world. A real-life friend, not a cyber friend.
Jackie rarely posts comments. I will not allow her to suffer insults (perceived or intentional) at my website.
You don't know her. I do!
Apologize to her. Now.
Jacqueline, I unequivecably apologize if my retort was considered insulting and damaging. Most certainly I do not know you and your qualities.
ReplyDeleteAOW, you are correct, as I do not know your friend that my comment should have reflected that. Understand me, though, I believe that remarks such "Islam is evil" is anyone's right to say but as it stands, on my part is both an illogical and questionable statement. I would respond in like to any similar comments (and do) from Muslims, Hindus or Jews who say similar statements against Christianity or the others and regularly respond to comments that often appear on Spanish language blogs that call us Catholics as not being Christian.
dcat,
ReplyDeleteShall you be judged on your multi-posts versus your commitment to ignore me plus the avoidance of internet etiquette by posting in all-caps. I do, as it is a sign of weakness that usually means the con has been exposed.
I should add that ranting about the Constitution of the United States only does diservice to that great document and is basically useless in reference to myself, I am both a British and Spanish national. It is also rather questionable in logic to mention Western Civilization when a HUGE percentage of your comments is in sharp contrast to the values that we have worked hard and suffered to achieve them.
Do enlighten us in what I am somehow in "contempt" with in regards to Western values? Freedom of expression and freedom of religion which you are so keen to delete from a quarter of humanity?
Equally illogical is your constant (and very bigoted) comments that target incorrectly what you "think" or "wish" to be Islamic or in fact whatever-it-is your attempting to achieve here.
Your comments on "hiding behind religion" and the "separation of Church and State" is not only strange but frankly talks more about your inability to read (probably because your ranting gets in the way).
I hide behind no religion, my support and in fact participation in Catholic values is clear enough, it guides my puting emphasis on both reality and fairness in debate, not mindless arguments. As for separation between Church and State, I have no intention of ever accepting the Church to be anything other than a guide to my morals and a reminder of Christ's Sacrifice for us all so that we may learn from it, not abuse it.
A last comment. I already posted a definition of what is bigotry. Those that push Sharia legal systems are most certainly bigots and that should be pointed out as I most certainly do. Those Muslims that consder themselves superior to others including other Muslims are most certainly bigots. Equally so, those of us Christians that consider themselves suprior to Muslims are also bigots. Those Christians that throw "spin" and ignore both facts or simply "deny" are bigots AND hypocrits. I have pointed out your failures as being bigoted and you can shout and post as many times as you like but remember one thing dcat, I refer to your commitment to ignore me and your constant failure to do so.
Making false accusations again after an appeasement chuck.
ReplyDeleteYou are the con and are frustrated with me.
Carry on then and show us more of your back side! I stuck up for Warrens wife and not for your benefit.
Quick man the tables more guano to come from Chalie real soon!
Warren,
ReplyDeleteHere is wher we let him.talk or I mean type to himself.
:D
D Charles,
ReplyDeleteApology noted.
Dcat,
ReplyDeleteI was offline most of yesterday: doctors' appointments (2!) for Mr. AOW (hoping not to get bad news about those scans of his carotids), then off to Walgreen's to get flu shots -- and for me to get my first pneumonia shot (student with compromised immune system in my class). The afternoon, evening, and night brought us terrible t'storms and tornado warnings in the area. I dared not turn on my computer and was stressing out over how to get Mr. AOW into a safe part of the house!
I hate getting those shots I just mentioned because my arms get so sore and I drag around for at least two days.
I never got a pneumonia shot. I just signed the ok for the free flu shot. I didn't get one till last year after 20 years. I didn't trust them. I still don't but that first time two in one I passed and after that year I got one.
ReplyDeleteThe grocery store is the worse place for germs. I hope the kids mom knows that!!
Storms I don't miss the tornatoes! I remember them when I lived in the midwest!
dcat,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your support of me, I appreciate it.
Always Jacqueline!
ReplyDeleteI read between the lines and know good people when I read it. Your good people and I know AOW is too. Had no idea about your relationship here. So nice to know you!
Dear AOW, I'm so very lucky to have you for a friend. Thanks for standing by me. I know you don't do that lightly.
ReplyDeleteLove Jackie
Longrange. my loyal and loving husband of 37 years, words can't express how I feel about you. I love you so very much.
ReplyDeleteThanks for being there.
Love Jackie