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Tuesday, July 26, 2011

Tied Up In Knots — Never A Good Condition

(Apologies in advance for the length of this post. Now you know why I haven't been making blog rounds!)

When something like the deeds of mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik transpire, it is best not to respond in a knee-jerk fashion.

Yes, I did have such a reaction myself on the day following the atrocities committed in Norway and before enough facts about the man came to light.

Some background:

At first, after the realization that Breivik's deeds were not Islamic terrorism but instead connected to what is often termed the counter-jihad blogosphere, the mainstream media attacked the availability of guns. I thought to myself along these lines: "I guess the mainstream media will not want to call attention to some web sites because if attention is drawn in that direction, people might actually visit those web sites and discover something the mainstream media and Leftists in general would much rather remain in limited circulation." In fact, the early stories decried the lack of gun control and contained nary a word about the blogosphere.

But the Leftists and their allies, the mainstream media, couldn't contain themselves. At last, they had their right-wing terrorist, and they were not about to let the crisis go to waste!

Condemnations of the so-called counter-jihad blogosphere have appeared in various publications, including the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and the New York Times, the latter two with hyperlinks to Jihad Watch, Gates of Vienna, and Atlas Shrugs, all cited as sources in Breivik's written manifesto, a much more convoluted presentation than his twelve-minute video, likely the primary source for the quickest condemnations of the blogosphere.

The media's frenzy to smear various "counter-jihadists" might well backfire, however, as these sites have become inordinately active since the condemnations by the mainstream media. We shall see as certainly some people will want to see "the hate sites" for themselves.

What has more recently drawn the attention of the mainstream media as they issue condemnations of the various sources cited by Breivik appears to be this early section of his manifesto, a section which has caused such alarm among political conservatives and the so-called counter-jihadists:
Multiculturalism (cultural Marxism/political correctness), as you might know, is the rootcause of the ongoing Islamisation of Europe which has resulted in the ongoing Islamiccolonisation of Europe through demographic warfare (facilitated by our own leaders). (page 9)
Many of us so-called counter-jihadists have expressed that idea. I know that I have.

But the document, a hypergraphic screed of some 769,351 words [Thanks for sending me a copy, Stogie!], contains much more. As one reads on (on and on and on), one can discern the ramblings of a megalomanic who thought he had found the way to solve all the world's problems.

Breivik even includes a page-after-page interview of himself in the Q&A section toward the end of the document. Note the date, which clearly precedes the founding of many of the so-called counter-jihad web sites, which appeared on the web after 9/11:
Q: What tipped the scales for you? What single event made you decide you wanted to continue planning and moving on with the assault?

A:
For me, personally, it was my government’s involvement in the attacks on Serbia (NATO bombings in 1999) several years back. It was completely unacceptable how the US and Western European regimes bombed our Serbian brothers. All they wanted was to drive Islam out by deporting the Albanian Muslims back to Albania. When the Albanians refused, they really didn’t have any choice but to use military force. By disallowing the Serbians the right for self-determination over their sovereign territory they indirectly dug a grave for Europe. A future where several Mini- Pakistan’s would eventually will be created in every Western European capital. This is unacceptable, completely unacceptable.

There have been several issues that have reaffirmed my beliefs since then. Among them; my governments cowardly handling of the Muhammad Cartoon issue and their decision to award the Nobel peace prize to an Islamic terrorist (Arafat) and appeasers of Islam.

There have been tens of other issues. My government and our media capitulated to Islam several years ago, after the Rushdie event. Since then, it has gone downhill. Thousands of Muslims pouring in annually through our Asylum institution, or by family reunification. The situation is just chaotic. These suicidal traitors must be stopped. (1379)
Apparently, Breivik latched onto the strange -ism that had already been forming in his mind.

As one example of the strangeness of Breivik's beliefs unrelated to the above points, note the following about marriage:
The myth about marriages based on love must be deconstructed

The illusion about love in a relationship between a man and a woman is the sum of irrational feelings based on desire. When love fades, and it always does, there is little to hold the relationship together. The mass media has been allowed to condition people to believe in a myth that does not exist. A marriage must be forged as an institution for the raising of children. Marriage must be based on a specific agreement between a man and a woman who creates an advanced pact which must have a minimum validity of at least 20 years. This pact must be forged upon the mutual interest to achieve a goal based on cooperation, on friendship, proper communication and on mutual respect - not on love. (1176)
I, for one, am sick of hearing Breivik described as a "fundamentalist Christian." Apparently Breivik's words, indicating that any faith he held was nominal at best:
I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person as that would be a lie. I've always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment.

[...]

I can't possibly imagine how my state of mind will be during the time of the operation, though. It will be during a steroid cycle...

[...]

If praying will act as an additional mental boost/soothing it is the pragmatical thing to do. I guess I will find out... If there is a God I will be allowed to enter heaven as all other martyrs for the Church in the past.

I am pursuing religion for this very reason and everyone else should as well, providing it will give you a mental boost....
Those don't sound like the words of a "fundamentalist Christian" to me. Those do sound like the words of one grabbing onto any idea fitting into his -ism.

Breivikism is strange, indeed.

We have yet to learn the short- and long-term effects of Breivik's deeds. Will there be copycats? Does Breivik have allies? Will there be more pressure to censor criticism of Islam?

For whatever reason, we Westerners have a propensity to ask "Did I cause this? Am I guilty?" Maybe all human beings ask themselves than, not only Westerners.

I still believe that we so-called counter-jihadists are going to end up owning this man's carnage, at least for a time and to some extent. As I said in my post at Infidel Bloggers Alliance: We live in the world of perceptions — not the world of realities.

My conclusion now after several days of research and observation: Anders Behring Breivik took many truths, as well as some blatantly strange ideas, and used them as the motivation to commit atrocious actions which none of the cited disseminators of those ideas ever intended or encouraged. I am reminded of cults, of Charles Manson.

We should neither shrug off Breivik, nor should we allow him to tie us up in knots.

Condemn him, answer his "charges," and trudge on.

To do otherwise would be to deny what so many of us have claimed as our convictions.

Furthermore, Breivik sounds an important warning regarding the disconnect between the will of the people and their elected leaders.


See additional reading at Stogie's site, where you'll find detailed analysis of Breivik's written manifesto.

Also see Jason Pappas's essay "Cultural Genocide."

49 comments:

  1. This twisted mind latched onto to islamic jihad as the place to focus his twisted thoughts. He could have just as easi¡ally have latched onto Marxism. Those who write anti-jihadist articles are not responible for this twisted mind.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Conservatives On Fire,
    Along the lines of what you're saying, this blogger made quite a good statement:

    People who are paranoid or schizophrenic can be influenced by anything: "hidden messages" in advertising, voices in their minds, the patterns of window cracks.

    Breivik may well have been susceptible to a lot of "influences," but latched onto the state of Norway and Europe as his -ism.

    ReplyDelete
  3. The media is having a field day. You’re right they waited years for this. I always thought some crazed soul would do something vicious and I thought it would have happened by now. I’m actually surprised it too so long. After all I saw many crazies online. Spencer always told them to leave and so have our friends at Gates of Vienna. There was a zero tolerance of violence. We all made it clear that this is a cultural battle with words and the ballet box.

    There is nothing that Breivik quotes that can give anyone any other impression. His “war” is his own. I notice that he says the two people he’d like to meet most is Putin and the Pope. Should the media cite that as proof of an influence? That’s absurd and neither should have to repudiate him. He gives Japan and South Korea as examples of his ideal society. Should we have to hear repudiations from the leaders of those nations? Of course not. Why then should the counter-jihad movement have to explain anything. It’s only because of the attack by the MSM, which they have been preparing for for the last decade.

    Good comments and links. If you notice I’m getting a little angry at the lame stream media.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I'm sure you are sick of hearing him described as a fundamentalist.

    However, while you feel you can define Muslims to suit your preconception you don't think the same is going to happen to you. Dream on little dreamer, dream on.

    This is a punk who quotes Spencer copiously in his manifesto. Same with the vulgar Geller.

    This isn't a situation where you can post some dipstick Breitbart video and control the conversation. People have had it with the hate sites and the nonsense they print.

    Yeah, Spencer attracts crazies like s--- attracts flies but it's okay because he tells them to leave. Nope, that liar ain't weaseling out of this one.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Actually he quotes Wikipedia more than he quotes Pam Geller. Are the writers of Wikipedia responsible? He expresses admiration for Putin and his regime as well as Japan and South Korea. So what? He admired the Pope!

    Remember this mass murderer? Colin Ferguson killed six white people on the Long Island Railroad saying he was sick of racism. Did we hear anyone blame Al Sharpton for his rhetoric against white supremacists? Did anyone tell Jessie Jackson to tone down his rhetoric? Did anyone say the vilification of supremacists created this monster?

    Wikipedia reminds me: “Kunstler and Kuby proposed an innovative defense that Ferguson had been driven to temporary insanity by a psychiatric condition they termed "black rage". Kunstler and Kuby argued Ferguson had been driven insane by racial prejudice, and could not be held criminally liable for his actions even though he had committed the killings.”

    Apparently, his defense team claimed his was motivated by anti-racist thoughts! Still no one told critics of racism that they were hate mongers or promoters of violence.

    Yes, we condemn Islamic supremacists just like we all condemn white supremacists. None of us are complicit in Breivik or Ferguson's crimes. Period.

    ReplyDelete
  6. The link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Ferguson_(convict)

    ReplyDelete
  7. Wow, you put a lot of work and thought into this. I was one of the knee-jerks this go around, but I agree with your conclusion.

    This guy is a European Manson or Loughner.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Breivik calls himself a "cultural conservative". Now, I know social conservatives, I know foreign policy haws and I know economic conservatives. I've met a cultural conservative once. He said that Jews are half responsible for the Holocaust, and that's he's basically a Nazi and that being right of center I need to forge alliances with other people right of center even if I don't like them. Maybe he only wanted to get a rise out of me, but it's still very disturbing.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Silverfiddle,
    For nearly two decades, I worked at a private school that sank into crisis-management mode. From that experience, I learned to take a step back before issuing a public statement or making new policy.

    And it is a natural inclination to rush to one's defense or to the defense of one's "cause."

    Yes, I did a lot of thinking and put a lot of work into this post.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Duck,
    Almost any web site can attract nut jobs. Surely you have seen some of the comments at newspaper web sites. Nut jobs of the Left, Right, and Center spouting off like lunatics, particularly when they are anonymous.

    Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, unlike you or I, are not anonymous.

    BTW, were I you, I wouldn't go on about Geller being vulgar. And didn't you once say something about wanting to put Andrew Breitbart in a body bag?

    Anyway, apparently Breivik was angered that some of the so-called counter-jihad groups rejected him -- and that Little Green Footballs reverted to its Leftist roots in 2007 after being a leader in the so-called counter-jihad since 9/11. Much has been made of Breivik's liking the EDL, but what he had to say about the EDL wasn't flattering at all as he thought that the EDL wasn't radical or active enough.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Jason,
    Yes, Breivik did frequently cite Wikipedia. He also carried an iPod and played music while he was shooting up the youth camp. Should we then blame Wikipedia, the iPod, the music?

    As you know, we rarely hear about Colin Ferguson. The double standard is ever in play.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Edge,
    We need to beware of how the word "cultural" is used. Be sure to read Jason's essay "Cultural Genocide."

    ReplyDelete
  13. Jason said:

    we condemn Islamic supremacists just like we all condemn white supremacists

    I have taken a clear stand on condemning white supremacism.

    In Europe, of course, ethnocentrism is a powerful trend. Indeed, in many respects, Europe has a sort of tribal culture. Breivik's hypergraphic manifesto contains a lot of tribal culturism.

    At some points, Breivik focuses on race; at other points, he claims not to be a racist or a white supremacist. To say the least, there are a lot of contradictions throughout his -ism.

    now, it is a fact that race is often one of the first things we see when we meet people or see groups of people. That observation is not racism, IMO. We also notice the clothing worn, the hair color, the height, etc. Race is but one more obvious things about any individual or groups of individuals. In my view, noticing someone's race is not a manifestation of racial supremacism.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Interesting....Spencer's response on a BBC audio -- begins after the 8-minute mark.

    ReplyDelete
  15. As for the sources that Breivik uses and/or quotes, he also quotes Locke, Jefferson, Gandhi, Churchill, Adam Smith, George Bernard Shaw, and even Shakespeare.

    I have to wonder if Breivik's hypergraphia might be steroid-use driven.

    And one more thing....His -ism began in 1999, when he was about age 20. Isn't that the age at which schizophrenia often appears?

    ReplyDelete
  16. Obviously, it takes a deranged mind to commit such atrocities. And, It's easy to see how such an unsound mind might be influenced by opinions offered by others to react forcibly and violently.

    I wouldn't let anti-Jihadists blog sites off the hook entirely, but keep in mind, these actions taken are solely the actions of the perpetrator, and no one else can be blamed.

    I read many articles and blogs by anti-Jihadists and extremists on both sides of the political spectrum, and never have I ever even entertained a thought to go shoot up a bunch of people.

    He had a choice. He could have chosen to express his anger and frustrations by writing a blog of his own, or a book, or by attending forums, or writing letters to the editor, or even talking to a psychiatrist.

    But, he chose to express himself with violence.

    In the end, the ultimate choice was made by Breivik, and no one else.

    When he stands before his Creator, he will be judged solely on his actions. He will not be allowed to blame anyone other than himself for his actions.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Mark,
    I wouldn't let anti-Jihadists blog sites off the hook entirely...

    To my knowledge, none of the sites being scrutinized publicly by the mainstream media have not advocated the kind of action that Breivik took. Rather, these sites have advocated legal and political activism.

    Look at it this way. Suppose that I advocate gun control, and then some nut case goes out and buys up guns and ammo, followed by shooting up the town. Should I be responsible for having advocated gun control in the first place?

    Of course, I do not advocate gun control as I support the Second Amendment. But you get my point, I think.

    I wish that I could think of another example, but that example will do for now.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Good post AOW. I think you've just proven the point about never jumping to conclusions, especially the hasty conclusions made by a largely Leftist media.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I added to my comment section some additions.

    I think one of the confusions about Breivik arrises from his attempt to tie into the cultural preservationist sentiments of conservatives while he actually accepts the central premise of “identity politics.” Conservatives obviously want to conserve the important cultural heritage of their nation. But they do so by education, art, and other voluntary efforts aimed at the next generation. Because of their commitment to liberty and voluntary transmission of cultural value, they want to limit immigration to the assimilation rate.

    Identity politics and multiculturalism seek to shielded “protected groups” from “cultural genocide.” The assimilation of non-Western peoples is condemned as “cultural genocide”. Asking a foreign-born citizen to learn the nation’s language is condemned as “cultural genocide.” The use of the word “genocide” halts any attempt at assimilation. You can’t advocate “some genocide”.

    Breivik signs on to the identity politics of “cultural genocide” and applies it to “indigenous” populations. Thus, he sees the growth of an anti-Norwegian ethos not merely as a loss of transmission of a culture to the next generation that voluntarily chooses to adapt new ways (as a conservative might) but as a genocidal war. Like the Norwegian Labor Party, he is a warrior against “cultural genocide” with the difference that the establishment sees “genocide” against an imported demographic group while Breivik sees “genocide” against the indigenous group. They both ratchet the rhetoric to millennial levels.

    Moderates that demand a limited immigration policy and assimilation are marginalized or lost in the debate. But they are not totally lost. Both Merkel and Sarkozy have declared multi-culturalism a failure and seek to foster assimilation and cultural preservation of Western culture. Breivik sees genocide vs. genocide. He gets that from the multi-culturalists, not conservatives.

    ReplyDelete
  20. excellent post and thanks for the quote on religion; it's perfect for the post I'm doing for later this afternoon...

    ReplyDelete
  21. AOW,
    I am surprised that the deranged will have anything to do with the second amendment! I feel they won’t! I think that they are stupid to even label this other than a premeditated murder!

    I am so disgusted at people that are trying to label this or even thinking that folks that want to keep OUR constitution and amendments intact want to murder! NO that would be the deranged! We on the Right will do it the legal way and by golly we will come out ahead not a thug!

    THAT GOES FOR THE RADICAL PISLAMISTS!!! THEY AIN’T GONNA BEAT US DOWN WITH STUPID IDIOTIC INNUEENDOS!

    Another thing! The left will not take our second amendment away and disarm good people! There are way to many, of us in the NRA!

    I wish they would have murdered that terrorist! That is what is wrong with the left! They coddle the killers and want more information! I feel that this is the problem and we need to get tough on these parasites! We need to show folks you don’t kill innocent people and you will be prosecuted for it! I am for the death penalty for these killers! Quickly!

    Blaming sites that distrust pisslam! What a jack ass we are better then this sack of...#@!% s@#t!

    ReplyDelete
  22. UGH!!!

    Yes they are taking a culture but this action is not the way to do it unless your life is in danger!

    Start doing work to stop it through office and make sure to get the staff on your side it is a lot of work! It takes a lot of your time but get busy!

    ReplyDelete
  23. Thank you AOL for putting this up...

    I guess I need to read the rest of it...

    ReplyDelete
  24. AOW now I can't type either...>:[

    ReplyDelete
  25. Dcat,
    Reading Breivik's manifesto is like reading Charles Manson's book.

    Yeah, Manson wrote a book. I read it, too, so I know whereof I'm speaking.

    ReplyDelete
  26. I know AOW,

    I just went off because I am so angry about the blame and the label the Right game!

    Oh yeah I'm a bigot because I don't go along with any of the pisslamist either.

    It all gets to a person with all those morons on my planet!

    ReplyDelete
  27. For some reason, I get (for me) a considerable amount of traffic from Pakistan and other Muslim countries. Maybe its the "Comrades" in the title of my blog. I did a lot of google and the middle east involvement posts. Anyway, does that mean if some one blows up something and they have been reading my blog, I am ginning them up? Wow.

    ReplyDelete
  28. yes the God awful extremists ..white Norwegian Supremacists...what a joke the media is!

    ReplyDelete
  29. AOW, you create a hate filled atmosphere and it produces hate.

    The fact that he quotes WIKI more often than Geller doesn't get that puke off the hook. Nice logic there Jason, I see you still lead the life of the mind.

    ReplyDelete
  30. ... and notice that through all of this Geller and Spencer have been defended, passively by and large but defended none the less.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Duck,
    AOW, you create a hate filled atmosphere and it produces hate.

    Is that right?

    Well, maybe so. After all, you hang out here and regularly spew hate against anyone right of center.

    BTW, I'm not defending Geller and Spencer. They are perfectly capable of defending themselves.

    Certainly, I don't read everything they write. But I've never seen them advocate anything but legal channels.

    Read Breivik's manifesto objectively. All of it. I stand by my analogy between that manifesto and Charles Manson's book. Weird! Yes, some truths are mixed in, but both men came to sociopathic conclusions.

    BTW, Breivik rejected all the so-called counterjihad groups because they didn't advocate violence, and he so stated. Furthermore, Breivik went off on his sociopathic tangent in 1999 -- well before any of the so-called counterjihad web sites ever appeared; he was angry that his "brothers" in Serbia had been attacked. His "brothers"? What did he mean by that? Indigenous Europeans, I guess. And there we have more tribalism in action. Sheesh.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Duck,
    And one more thing....I see a lot of hate-filled comments all over the web: the WaPo, the Daily Kos, the Huffington Post, etc., etc. I suppose that they are creating hate too -- by your definition, anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  33. From this source:

    BREIVIK'S MANIFESTO REVEALS HE REJECTED THE EDL AND OTHER COUNTER-JIHAD ORGANIZATIONS BECAUSE THEY ALL REJECT VIOLENCE AND SEEK CHANGE VIA POLITICAL AND EDUCATIONAL AND DEMOCRATIC EFFORTS.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I'm standing with Pamela and Robert too!

    AOW,
    It is duck season for all liberal socialist loving pisslams too! The stupid stuff they have stated is backfiring already!

    ReplyDelete
  35. Ducky, I think you owe AOW an apology. You've been welcomed here; you haven't been banished. Your comments have been addressed often with patience. To say that this venue promotes hate and intolerance is absurd.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Jason,
    Thank you, my good friend.

    Let's see if Duck will apologize. He does owe me one. I have indeed been patient with him since 2005. I wonder if that's some kind of record?

    ReplyDelete
  37. AOW hard to delete someone who is some darn entertaining in his posts.

    If we did not have Ducky, this would be a boring place for mostly we all agree.

    Let him be rude and insulting for such things reveal depravity of the progessive movement.

    It is often said, the first person to go foul language in a discussion has done so because he/she has nothing else intelligent to say.

    ReplyDelete
  38. No Jason, I have no reason to apologize. This blog is makes no bones about linking to those that have been in the forefront of disinformation campaign.

    She championed a member of the EDL (cute group) for whatever reason but this much is known, she dislikes all things Muslim and all things left wing.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I’m not buying that Ducky. In your original comment you said “you create a hate filled atmosphere and it produces hate.” In today’s language that is a most vile comment.

    Now you use the word “dislikes” which suggests a change that I hope is intended. If that’s the case why not just go all the way and apologize?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Duck,
    A lot has transpired since I championed Lionheart UK, including, if I'm not mistaken, his own distancing from the EDL.

    Why did I champion him? I believe that Paul Ray should be able to blog without getting arrested for criticizing Islam -- just as I believe that you, Duck, shouldn't be arrested for championing the slaughterers of millions of people.

    Lionheart UK has written several blog entries about Breivik, including THIS ONE and THIS ONE.

    I MYSELF HAVE NEVER ADVOCATED ANY VIOLENCE..

    I do not hate all things Muslim. I DO hate any religious or racial supremacist ideology.

    As for what I link to, well, I do not have to agree with with everything expressed at those sites, nor do I agree with everything expressed at those sites.

    You think you know me. You do not.

    --------------

    Of late, you have been in a particularly contentious mood. Remember that so many at whom you're ticked off do communicate privately offline. I'm sure that you wouldn't like some of those comments published as they will show that the one with so much hate in his heart is you.

    And just FYI....Your intercepted comments remain forever in the receiver's inbox (comment notification), even if you log into Blogger and delete your comments. Indeed, over the years, I have maintained a file of your comments.

    No apology from you? Your call. I know where we stand, then.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Breivik on science and religion:

    While the establishment media look to fundamentalist Christianity and various right-wing sources to explain the ideology of Norwegian mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik, they have completely ignored his virulent scientific fundamentalism and Social Darwinism, including a far-ranging proposal for a revival of eugenics inspired by Princeton University evolutionary biologist Lee Silver. [web site HERE]

    In his 1518-page "European Declaration of Independence," Breivik reveals himself as an unapologetic champion of modern biology and the scientific worldview. Indeed, despite his right-wing views in some areas, he does not believe that the progress of science can be left to private enterprise. Instead, it requires lavish and permanent support by the state. He argues that 20% of government spending must be devoted to scientific research (pp. 1188, 1386), and he insists that funding science is more important than government help for the poor. "Welfare expenditure should not take precedent over the 20% fixed sum dedicated to science/technology, research and development." (p. 1195)

    Science also trumps religion according to Breivik: "As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings." (p. 1403)

    [...]

    While the murderous rampage of Mr. Breivik is obviously not the responsibility of Prof. Silver, the same cannot be said about Breivik's chilling call for a new eugenics. There Prof. Silver served (albeit via Wikipedia) as an intellectual mentor to Breivik, who embraced Silver's program of "reprogenetics" wholesale as well as his scientific utopianism.


    Are any of the media accusing Lee Silver of inspiring Breivik?

    ReplyDelete
  42. Great AOW but the guy is a lunatic...I mean Breivik not Ducky. OK maybe Ducky but no seriously we (Christian Conservatives) only need to act differently than other those from other religions in condemning the vile actions of other so called Christians. In other words, we, Chrsitians Conservatives, are not responsible for the actions of all those who claim to be Christians. This is a difficult concept for some to grasp. We, Christian Conservatives are responsible to condemn such hateful actions and we have.

    As to the second point, here again leftists follow every thing their leaders say and do with mindless submission. If Obama says it is a bad idea to raise the debt ceiling in 2006 they agree. If he says it should be raised further in 2011 they agree. The concept that I can agree with one aspect of what you say but not all of what you say is foreign to leftists. In this way, leftists suggest that if you agree with one thing someone said then you must agree with everything they say....

    ReplyDelete
  43. Blogginator,
    we, Chrsitians Conservatives, are not responsible for the actions of all those who claim to be Christians. This is a difficult concept for some to grasp.

    That's because the push to make us "group think" has been on for a century (or more).

    Breivikism has many similarities to Mansonism.

    But I'll tell you one thing that really worries me right now: In some so-called counterjihad forums, I have seen commenters voice support for Breivik and his vile deeds.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Good points blogginator. Let's also point out that the leadership of Christians or more specifically counter-jihadi writers universally condemn Breivik. How many Muslim leaders condemned bin Laden after 9/11 or Hamas after their attacks in an unqualified manner?

    AOW, I, too, noticed the similarity of Breivik to Manson. The whole idea of inciting a civil war is grandiose, bizarre, and vicious.

    I'm sadden to hear that there are commenters who voice support for Breivik. Where is this? Are they trolls? Is there any leader in the counter-jihadi movement that supports or excuses Breivik?

    ReplyDelete
  45. "I believe that Paul Ray should be able to blog without getting arrested for criticizing Islam -- just as I believe that you, Duck, shouldn't be arrested for championing the slaughterers of millions of people."

    Well said, AOW. Will someone tell me what EDL is?

    ReplyDelete
  46. Jason,
    I don't recall where I read comments from those siding with Breivik. Perhaps at the Huffington Post? It seems to me that I read those comments at a site other than a so-called counterjihad site.

    The whole idea of inciting a civil war is grandiose, bizarre, and vicious.

    Such grandiosity is one of the hallmarks of schizophrenia, I think. That comment should not be construed to mean that I excuse Breivik. I DO NOT!

    I have to wonder if somebody close to him saw the mental deterioration. Let us recall the Hinckley's family saw what was happening to him and kept silent because they never thought that he'd follow through with his threats.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Jason,
    Are they trolls?

    Instigators or sickos who want their 15 minutes of anonymous fame on the Internet, IMO.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Dcat,
    The stupid stuff they have stated is backfiring already!

    If anyone other than a relatively small circle is any longer paying attention to the Breivik story at all now -- a week later.

    ReplyDelete

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