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Tuesday, May 31, 2022

Is This Time Different?

My neighbor from 1978-2013 was born in Canada but in the 1980s became a naturalized American citizen.  He is now in his late seventies.  His wife is politically conservative. Their two children are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. 

All these political conflicts made for interesting discussions at the dinner table for thirty years. Truly, though, there no animosity on any side. Discussions were both lively and friendly.

Then came the 2008 General Election, after which point my leftwing neighbor was, overnight, intolerable of other points of view. It was an ugly transformation! That year, he stormed away from the dinner table in a fury when I asked for evidence for one of his discussion points. Gone was his pacifism of so many years.

And so it has remained between us. The dinner invitations ceased, too, of course.  

Now to the present day....

In the wake of the May 24, 2022 massacre in Uvalde, Texas, my former neighbor posted the following at his Facebook page:
I just unfriended a follower. He/she insists that guns are not a problem. What a pile of b/s. If you own a gun and believe that even minimal gun control is not necessary, then you are borderline scum. Every other western country has people with mental problems, but no other country is awash in guns like the US. No other country has had over 200 mass killings since the beginning of the year. Why in blazes does the US lead the world in this god-awful statistic? And we have a group of politicians, read Ted Cruz and his ilk, who won’t do a thing about it. Disgraceful!!
and
Some other things to ponder....America: where last year 52 percent of adults supported stricter gun control, according to Gallup, leaving nearly half who want either less strict laws or the status quo. America: where residents own more guns per 100 residents than any other country in the world: 120.5, which is more than twice as many as the next highest country, which is Yemen.

America: where there are more guns than humans.
and
[W]hy in blazes does anyone need 10 guns?
Of course, along came many of my former neighbor's Facebook friends to affirm what he had spewed.

I recall a time, in the 1980s, that my former neighbor summoned Mr. AOW and me — and our guns — to investigate something in their carport, be that something two-legged or four-legged.  Our former neighbor, for whatever reason, had gotten no response from the police and had become more and more fearful for the safety of his family and the security of the valuable antiques he was refinishing in that carport.

Today, my former neighbor and his wife live way west of Northern, out on a long, often impassable, dirt road in the boonies and surrounded by trees and acres of land, in a beautiful, custom-made mansion laden with valuables galore.  Yet, apparently, they see no reason to have any firearms as personal protection.

Right now, a lot of people are opining almost identically as my former neighbor.  Will the noise be loud enough that our Congress critters impose more gun-control measures?  And what good would such measures do if the problem is, as I believe, our society's moral rot?

Some uncomfortable facts along with the only question that really matters:

195 comments:

  1. (((Thought Criminal)))May 31, 2022 at 5:30:00 AM CDT

    Ask them if Putin is mentally disturbed and why we need to arm Ukraine ;)

    ReplyDelete
  2. Until we can establish some basic facts, we can't have a rational debate.

    Many incidents on the most common "school shootings" are not school shootings as we understand them. The 'Mass shooting' definition has become more capacious so as to encompass more events, and almost everything is now domestic terrorism. All scary definitions used to propagandize.

    Over half of all gun deaths are suicides.

    School shootings and mass shootings are less than a percent of all murders.

    'white supremacists,' white nationalists,' 'domestic terrorists,' or what ever you want to call them accounted for around 30 deaths last year, based on the broadest application possible. For example, that number includes murders in prison where a neo-nazi kills another neo-nazi.

    ReplyDelete
  3. The salient question is, what laws or actions would have prevented one of these horrible events?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That requires rationality. I don't expect that.

      Delete
    2. Good question, SF. There is no question fits all, but I would think about how they dynamics of this nation has changed, the American family, drug use, homelessness, hunger, and the litany of plagues a government inflicts on its citizenry because "they just do not give a darn about 'the people'."

      Delete
  4. Biden’s speech about “Gun Control” was completely nauseating. The first two minutes he was going full speed on emotional pandering and then he flips the switch and goes into Gun Control Mode. What a phony that Potato Head is. And that’s the leader of the Free World?
    The stammering, stuttering clown really had nothing from the heart to say. He sounded like a a mumbling vegetable talking about murdered children.

    ReplyDelete
  5. A fundamental truth this time around, like every other time....is that elected officials and lobbyists who are utterly illiterate when it comes to firearms....will attempt to pass legislation based on that illiteracy.

    And they seem proud of that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ignorance and arrogance are a dangerous combination. The district of criminals is spilling over with both

      Delete
  6. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

    -FJ

    ReplyDelete
  7. The astute leftist might observe that we have murders in this country even despite laws making it illegal to kill another human being. Before going any further, both AOW and I spend years in the classroom ... long enough, at least, to say with certainty, that the number of kids on public school campuses who are exactly like Uvalde Sal, is scary as hell — all of whom are products of lousy parenting and an entire range of worrisome psycho social phenomena. So, if you can imagine that Sal couldn’t have purchased or gotten hold of firearms, what would he have used on those defenseless tots? Does anyone here think that a campus full of hacked to death children would offer a better visual? If those children could vote, would they opt for a machete over a firearm? The debate gets dumber by the episode. Gun-free zones didn’t protect those children, but they certainly did prohibit a teacher from defending those children.

    God must truly love stupid people — he made so many.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mustang,
      Great comment!

      I'll be responding later today. In 15 minutes I have to teach. I can't seem to get fully retired. Sheesh.

      Delete
    2. Mustang,
      the number of kids on public school campuses who are exactly like Uvalde Sal, is scary as hell — all of whom are products of lousy parenting and an entire range of worrisome psycho social phenomena

      Agreed! And, in my experience, illicit drug use and/or gang involvement were the typical psycho social phenomena that tipped the balance.

      In the two public high schools where I worked for five years (1973-1987, pre-Columbine), the overriding school policy that I ran into was as follows: "You, the teacher, have something wrong with your lessons plans or in-classroom discipline if you fill out too many disciplinary slips. And don't send students to the office!"

      Furthermore, contacting the parents directly was forbidden: everything had to go through the Guidance Department. In my experience, that department consisted of all-day-long coffee drinkers who did as little as possible. Never, ever did I see a counselor there address any of the serious discipline problems in the school.

      I left the classroom in 1978 -- determined never to teach again.

      I have taught again, of course: private Christian education for 18 years and homeschooling/private tutoring for 24 years (and still counting). Intact families and no illicit drug use for the vast most part and very, very few troubled kids.

      Delete
  8. And ... https://youtu.be/pELwCqz2JfE

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mustang,
      Bill Whittle! He's so logical. Still, anti-gun people will not listen and learn.

      Delete
    2. The left will never listen. I am convinced they are tone deaf and have some kind of brain deficit. They are a sick lot.

      Delete
  9. Considering the mention of civility in political discussion, I started to watch the Carson vid to see if this was the one he threatened "civil war" over gun control but when I saw it was over 15 minutes long I thought, the hell with that.

    I think the overall theme has been mental health and arming teachers. I have a hard time keeping up but was it Carson or Jessie Waters blaming the shooting on CRT? I believe it was Hannity calling for "man traps" and "trip doors" while OAN hosted a former NRA president blaming it on abortions. And then there's Ted Cruz and other Rs calling for a single door in schools (yes, they seriously are). There also seems to be a growing concerting effort of the propaganda networks to pull trans people in as the culprit.

    The smorgasbord is full of options with more to be added.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Slow down there, scooter. Yeah, there is some stupidity in there, but there's also some good stuff.

      Controlling entry into a school is not a stupid idea. Ever heard of doors that are locked on the outside but have a crash bar on the inside so people can exit quickly?

      Also, a double door entry system where you have an entrapment area, is also a way to control entry. So please stop and think before you just crap all over everything

      Delete
    2. For starters, I wasn't "crapping al over" anything but was rather mocking the crap from the right-wing networks.

      Yes, I'm fully aware and approve of controlled entry. When I pick up or have lunch with a grandkid, I walk into an enclosed locked room to identify myself before being allowed to proceed into the building.

      I was mocking Cruz's 1 door entrance because it may be a good idea in tiny schools but isn't realistic in schools with several thousands of students and staff or where students shuffle from one building to another. And then there's incoming food and supplies. Cruz's idea by the way, has been met with eyerolls from most safety folks.

      What the Kremlin approved Fox channel doesn't want talk about, as I've mentioned before, is the loopholes in the background check laws, particularly on assault rifles which seems to be the weapon of choice in school shootings.

      My personal opinion is that assault rifles should be licensed just like an automobile. And no, I don't think that would be some cure-all. I think it would be a step up from thoughts and prayers.

      Delete
    3. "Assault rifles" function exactly like any other semi-automatic rifle. So, I assume that you'd want to license all of them? Why not pistols, the vast majority of which are also semi-automatic and used far, far more in criminal acts resulting in death and injury.

      Too many people have allowed the narrative of illiteracy to cloud critical thought.

      Delete
    4. CI... correct me if I'm wrong, but I see your reading of the Constitutional right to bear arms as also a prohibition against any regulation.

      Is that correct? Is Congress, or local government prohibited from passing any law that would not confiscate guns, but rather limit access to guns for future purchases?

      Delete
    5. At it's core, yes. However [as Scalia noted] no Constitutional Right is absolute, so limiting the ability of criminals and the mentally unfit, seems to be in line with the Framer's intent.

      Limiting access to 'arms' based on emotion, cosmetic/ergonomic features, caliber and the like...would be a prohibited action, in my analysis.

      Delete
    6. Yeah, I'd throw a great deal of handguns in as well.

      I guess it brings up that "at what point" or "where do you draw the line" question. I think preventing Crazy Uncle Joe from stockpiling mass quantities of tactical ballistic missiles in the event he runs across a really stubborn rabbit isn't infringing on his freedumbs.

      But that's just me.

      Delete
    7. Of course, the flying leap to the absurd is expected from the gun control camp, in these conversations.

      What is a 'great deal of handguns'?

      Delete
    8. Any semi-automatic or rapid firing weapon.

      It's my opinion the acceptance of an 18 year old ordering AR-15s, or mass quantities of, online has jumped absurdity.



      Delete
    9. Fully automatic firearms are already regulated and require a Class III Special Occupational Taxpayer license.

      For semi-automatic firearms, you'd further regulate or restrict an entire class of firearms, based on the ability to pull the trigger as many times as your finger [and ammunition] will allow? Just like every other firearm on the planet?

      ("rapid firing") is not a term that lends itself to a legal, and thus enforceable metric.

      Firearms ordered online, are shipped to an FFL dealer, who conducts a background check. You may disagree on whether an owner should be 18 or 21....but the internet angle is just another aspect of the narrative of illiteracy.

      Delete
    10. Ban semi-automatic rifles and handguns and the next school attack will be with a flame thrower. Jes sayin'... Maryland's the only state that has banned them.

      -FJ

      Delete
    11. The Elon Musk option for Tesla purchasers...

      Delete
    12. (((Thought Criminal)))May 31, 2022 at 11:41:00 AM CDT

      I didn't watch the Cucker Tarlson prolefeed either. I prefer to interact with retards rather than sit for a lecture from one.

      School shootings vs. single doors that block escape from fires... the debate misses the point.

      We need to ban public schools. After all, many of the people making these idiotic gun control arguments are themselves the products of public education.

      Delete
    13. (((Thought Criminal)))May 31, 2022 at 11:50:00 AM CDT

      LOL. Elon Musk's flamethrower had a limited production run, unfortunately.

      BUT! You can still buy a TF-19 flamethrower drone for you 3D battle spaces and home defense needs.

      Delete
    14. Screw Airsoft, beamish. I say we hang a real Glock on this bad boy and fly it over some playgrounds... ;P

      Delete
    15. Maybe we need to outlaw "stupidity" instead of guns. Better lock Ron up NOW!

      -FJ

      Delete
    16. "Maybe we need to outlaw "stupidity" instead of guns. Better lock Ron up NOW!"

      I suppose by SF's standards, you've outdone me again as that's right up there with "better up the dosage Ron".

      With your impeccable research and 3rd grade 4th month level wit, how can anyone compete?

      But interestingly, I was just expressing my personal opinion on a political issue, something AOW suggest that liberals are so intolerant of those with different opinions and demean them because of it..

      Delete
    17. We could paint those scary black guns the color pink, and maybe that would make them look less scary.

      Delete
    18. SF: Brilliance! And they come that way from the manufacturer.
      I'd retort to the comments calling for more control, but "pearls before swine".

      Delete
    19. (((Thought Criminal)))June 1, 2022 at 12:07:00 AM CDT

      But interestingly, I was just expressing my personal opinion on a political issue, something AOW suggest that liberals are so intolerant of those with different opinions and demean them because of it..

      Everything the Palestinians use to build rockets to shell Israel with can be bought at Home Depot. Panic.

      Delete
    20. Don't bother, beamish. You'll never convince a corporate global capitalist realist that the "product" isn't both the "problem" and the "solution". Digital currencies will limit gun purchases to "the sane". They won't need "background checks" for gun purchases. All purchases at Home Depot will be pre-screened in advance,

      -FJ

      Delete
    21. Need "social credits"? Vote "Democrat"!

      Delete
    22. We could paint those scary black guns the color pink, and maybe that would make them look less scary.

      That would seriously clash with all of my FDE.

      Black Guns Matter.

      Delete
    23. Ron obviously couldn't afford to go to Davos this year. His carbon footprint was also MUCH too low...

      Delete
    24. Ron has a serious commodity fetish... and he needs 5G to locate, track, and access ALL his commodities.

      Delete
    25. And let's face it. Guns are terrible for social relations unless you're the ONLY one holding them.

      Delete
    26. (((Thought Criminal)))June 1, 2022 at 10:31:00 AM CDT

      @FJ - garbage in, garbage out. Mises' and Hayek's Economic Calculation Problem devastates digital currency controls even more efficiently than it devastates socialist / communist command economy schemes. Man plane, God laughs.

      Delete
    27. Mises and Hayek never saw Allende's CyberSyn in action. Feedback improves every control loop.

      Delete
    28. (((Thought Criminal)))June 2, 2022 at 4:43:00 AM CDT

      ::laughs in Pinochet::

      Delete
    29. Why did CIA back Pinochet's coup, then, and then start work on their own ARPANet?

      -FJ

      Delete
    30. (((Thought Criminal)))June 2, 2022 at 6:23:00 AM CDT

      Clearly they wanted to be able to blackmail people with their browser histories after a nuclear attack. Again, garbage in, garbage out. If they build it, we will vandalize it.

      Delete
    31. ...and then build our own.

      -FJ

      Delete
    32. (((Thought Criminal)))June 2, 2022 at 2:53:00 PM CDT

      Never give out your Netflix password

      Delete
  10. Episode of Law and Order this past week: confrontation on the street with black woman waving a 9mm handgun at a white man. Cop comes up with his gun out and tells her to drop the gun. She shoots the cop dead. She's charged with manslaughter because the DA doesn't think he can convict a black woman of murder in New York. She weeps on the stand about how afraid she was because she knows that "cops shoot black people all the time" so she shot him because, "I didn't want to die." Verdict - not guilty.

    And you're wondering why people are angry and violent?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can see why you're angry, but you need to take your share of responsibility for choosing to watch such a hacky show.

      Delete
  11. FYI:
    I deleted 4 comments.
    One, was out and out robot spam that excerpted parts of CI(s) comment and linked to an online store.
    The other three were off topic, one right after another.

    ReplyDelete
  12. AOW, you already know my stance on gun control it is hogwash! Guns are not the problem, people are. Guns don't go around killing any human or anything else unless you put a human holding that gun and firing that trigger. These left loons need to get a grip. They all fly off the handle like they have been drugged and are under some sick spell because they sure cannot think for themselves, all group think. You are right. It is all this society and its rot!

    ReplyDelete
  13. AOW, Silver, Warren, et al, as one of a small group of left leaning folks here, let me ask a couple of questions...

    Independent of how we diagnose the "problem" or root cause behind the most recent shooting in Uvalde, or too many others for that matter, is there anything concrete we can do to stop or lessen these shootings?

    Or is the answer nothing?

    And then... why are we not seeing shootings like this in other primarily English speaking countries with like cultures? What is it in America that essentially makes this a mostly unique American practice?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We are a sick society swimming in cultural sewage, to include extreme narcissism and celebration of violence by Hollywood and popular music.

      People are disconnected. We rank #1 is the use of antidepressants and other psychotropic drugs.

      Our culture is neo-pagan, with more and more people believing in nothing more than themselves and whatever is in front of their faces. Moral standards grounded in our Judeo-Christian heritage have been replaced by morality of the day, with tastemakers and twitter mobs continually defining saintliness and sin.

      Mental illness, broken families, broken communities.

      Delete
    2. Stop drugging these kids, disconnecting them from reality.
      Teach them not to kill. Oops. Can't do that can we?

      Delete
    3. Of course, if there were not guns, we would have no gun violence. Removing all guns is impossible, so I support early intervention.

      A Secret Service study reports that near 100% of mass shooters gave off warning signs.

      We don't need red flag laws to intervene. We need law enforcement, mental health professionals, and a judge to adjudicate the matter, and all 50 states already have laws on the books, and there are federal laws

      It has always been possible to take a dangerous person’s guns away. All 50 states and the federal government have involuntary commitment laws that go by various names: the Baker Act in Florida, for example, or the 5150 code in California. They all require a mental health expert to testify before a judge, but hearings can occur quickly in urgent cases. If those facing a hearing can’t afford a lawyer, the judge provides them with one. Judges have a lot of flexibility when ruling. For instance, if the person on trial does not agree to voluntary psychiatric treatment, they may be committed involuntarily or have their guns confiscated.

      https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/05/27/red_flag_laws_and_unintended_consequences_147668.html

      Delete
    4. Over 2,000 children were murdered on the streets and in their homes in 2021.

      What drives murderers to fire weapons indiscriminately and display such a callous disregard for the lives of babies and children?

      https://nypost.com/2022/05/26/blm-is-silent-on-the-top-killer-of-black-kids-gang-violence/

      Delete
    5. Aside from making NICS effective in the first place, we need juvenile criminal and mental health records made available as well.

      I'm sort of a proponent [philosophically at least] of tying NICS to drivers licenses. Receive a thorough background check [to include juvenile record] when getting/renewing a license....voluntarily of course, if you wish to own a firearm. That background check is good for the currency of the license. Another background check when you renew.....and avoid the check each time you make a purchase at an FFL.

      Should reduce the backlog and might compel states/localities to actually make criminal & mental health records available.

      Of course, a radical gutting and restructuring of the DMV would be in order......nobody would ever be able to purchase a firearm again, in it's current state...

      Delete
    6. Dave,

      What do you think explains this, which is a sadly common event here in the US?

      At least nine people were killed and about 50 others wounded during the Memorial Day weekend, the traditional start of the Chicago’s summer events and violence.

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-9-dead-47-wounded-in-memorial-day-weekend-that-saw-250-guns-seized-11-from-north-avenue-beachgoers/ar-AAXWp2d?

      Delete
    7. Silver... I don't know. As it relates to mass shootings, which I define as a single person going into a specific place with intent to kill as many ppl as possible with no discernible motive, unlike the daily mayhem in say, Chi town, I just don't know.

      That's as it relates to motive.

      But there certainly seems to be something uniquely American that propels young mostly white men to become mass shooters/killers. Maybe this is just the white male as serial killer 2.0. Instead of it taking months for him to kill his victims, he takes care of it all at once.

      Many people, including here, have mentioned mental illness, and I would agree that seems to be in play. But that would beg the question as to what our response would be. If that is indeed a problem, perhaps as a society, we should take a look at our mental health system and make some reforms, provide better access, etc.

      I think the countries we would deride as socialist have stronger mental health systems for people to get treatment, so perhaps young men in those countries are not in as bad a shape in that regard as they are here.

      Of course, regardless of our view on second amendment rights and access to firearms, most of the other European and English speaking countries, where this does not happen with anywhere near the same frequency, strictly control gun access.

      Is there causality? I don't know.

      Is there a solution to be had? Again, I don't know. But it seems like there's got to be something we can do apart from saying, as some of my friends have, "It's a cost of freedom."

      To me, that's just something from crazy town.

      Delete
    8. I have no solutions. The family is the building block of society, and our foundation is crumbling.

      Delete
    9. SF,
      The moral rot to which I referred at the end of blog post.

      Delete
    10. SF, your assessment of our "sick society, cultural sewage, Hollywood violence, disconnection, psycho drug using neo-pagan, low moral" may be contributors but it doesn't rationalize our mass shooting problem with that of rest of the free world.

      David Akins of The Washington Monthly puts it:

      "Let’s state the obvious: The rest of the world has video games; the U.S. does not have higher rates of mental illness than other countries; most other developed democracies are far less religious than the U.S. The United States is unique among its peer nations for its weak social safety net, high incarceration rates, and, most importantly, its mindboggling proliferation of guns. America’s shockingly high rate of gun violence is evident if you compare us with similar countries. Conservative lies are easily laid bare. Geography doesn’t lie".

      Delete
    11. A Dave Miller:
      ".... is there anything concrete we can do to stop or lessen these shootings?"
      Yes, but the answers are not simple things.
      Let me preface this; I was actively involved with this argument for several years but the answers are not the ones gun control people want to hear so they always go back to the same old talking points and I became tired of refuting the same old crap and mostly ignore the argument as a waste of my time.
      There are no cures but ask yourself what has changed in the last several decades.
      The nuclear family has greatly been diminished and there are few male role models in the lives of post adolescent young men.
      Glorification of gang and drug culture.
      Marcuseian critical theory where societal norms are torn down and replaced with moral relativism.
      The role of psychotropic drugs in the treatment of even mild depression and even ADHD when the effects of long term usage are poorly understood at best.
      The diminished role of religious education and Judaeo Christian morality in the home.
      The unwillingness of the criminal justice system to actually punish violent and clearly anti-social behavior.
      Address them all, the solutions are not simple.
      So basically, I agree with SF.

      Delete
    12. David Adkins is wrong, and proffers a mixed bag.

      High incarceration rate? That would be an outcome of a higher level of violence. We have the highest violent crime rate of all economically advanced nations, including all of Europe (eastern and western), Canada and Australia. Our violent crime rate is more than double Western European nation, and almost 4X that of Canada.

      Delete
    13. Only 26% of aggravated assaults are with a firearm.

      A monomaniacal focus on guns is the sign of a small mind.

      Delete
  14. Replies
    1. I guess I didn't read far enough before commenting....

      Delete
    2. No prob, we're on the same wavelength.

      You can't paper over isolation, dislocation, stress, existential angst and cultural rot with 'medication.'

      Delete
  15. Dave Miller

    What do we do with this news? How many of the shooters do you estimate were National Rifle Association members?

    "There were 179 killed and 463 injured over the holiday weekend."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/9-killed-and-over-70-wounded-in-memorial-day-weekend-mass-shootings/ar-AAXWwp2?

    Does any sane person really think red flag laws or gun bans would stop feral criminals from murdering innocent people?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Red flag laws are a red herring. Digital currencies and a social credit system coupled to ESG ratings will solve ALL of Davos Man's problems.

      -FJ

      Delete
    2. So far we've only experienced the Society of Control in its' infant stages. Our cyber pilots have only steered the ship of State with gentle rudder movements.

      -FJ

      Delete
    3. Got information? I guess that means you're the one in "control".

      -FJ

      Delete
    4. Silver... in a post on the shooter in Uvalde, you've now got us talking about a 100% different problem. A serious problem no doubt, but different.

      I think these types of shootings, including the nightly events in Chicago, are a law enforcement issue. And then I would add this... most cops will say there are simply too many guns on the street, too easily allowing petty disputes to get out of hand.

      What used to end in local street brawls, or even a banger driving across South Central LA with a shot gun, now have the same anger, paired with guns that can shoot 45 bullets a minutes. Which of course leads to increases in our level of daily carnage.

      And I doubt many perpetrators of this level of violence are NRA members.

      Delete
    5. "Law enforcement issues" are merely the symptoms of larger "societal issues" which if unaddressed and unsolved, will persist in perpetuity.

      -FJ

      Delete
    6. Yes, technology continues to advance rendering these "law enforcement issue" increasingly dangerous and pressing, but focusing on the "tech" and not the underlying "causes" will remain, unproductive. The tech isn't going to get less lethal..

      Delete
    7. Dave, the link between guns and gun violence is indisputable.

      What is causing people to get to the point they take a gun and kill others?

      Gun grabbers refuse to explore root causes and instead go for the facile, surface answers.

      Delete
    8. Silver, Certainly there are mental health issues in play. But how do we address them? In the insurance realm, no insurers equate mental health issues/disease with "real health" problems.

      Care is frequently not covered. Government, which we are seeing now in Texas, will offer platitudes about needing to up our mental health game, while taking money from that pot to use elsewhere. In fact in Texas, the governor used mental health dollars to fund the Texas Rangers, not the baseball team, patrolling the border.

      You asked "What is causing people to get to the point they take a gun and kill others?"

      I don't think ppl are necessarily angrier or crazier than they were in the past. but now, so many more people are packing heat. Again, the guy who gets disrespected by his buddies at a party, goes to the car, gets his piece, comes back and shoots the place up.

      Maybe it is as simple as access. Now people who 30-40 years ago would never have had a gun, have one. So they can be more deadly with their anger.

      Delete
    9. Silver... the reality is there are no easy answers. Both sides will have to be willing to come to the table and seek out real solutions that will lessen the carnage.

      Probably the best we can hope for and even that seems like a stretch today, even after another shooting at a hospital in Tulsa.

      Delete
    10. Dave, household gun ownership has gone down. People always had access to weapons. before the 60's you could order them by mail.

      "We can't figure it out so let's just take all the guns away" is low IQ thinking. And anyway, taking all guns away isn't realistic.

      Delete
    11. SF,
      household gun ownership has gone down

      I believe that!

      Back when I was growing up in Northern Virginia in the 50s and 60s, just about everyone I knew packed a gun in the car's glove compartment. Carry-concealed laws be damned.

      We target practiced in the back yard. We had 6 acres of land surrounded by 40 more owned by neighbors, and plenty of room to plink safely at tin cans. And many local schools had gun clubs!

      Nobody whom my family and I knew shot anyone else, nobody whom my family and I knew suicided by gun, nobody whom my family knew was wounded in any accidental shooting.

      Delete
    12. Of course, this kind of currently in vogue race baiting does nothing to anger and enrage people, make them want to pick up a gun and shoot members of a different race... or run them down in a Christmas parade with an SUV...

      -FJ

      Delete
    13. You know, funny thing but I've carried a semi-automatic pistol and owned bolt action and that scary AR 15 rifles for almost 45 years and I haven't had to shoot anyone "yet' or even been tempted to commit a mass shooting.
      For those curious, since I was 16 years old, my father owned a gas station on US-41 and many gas station attendants were shot and murdered in robberies. I was the one that closed the gas station at night and yes, someone "tried" to rob me. .

      Delete
  16. Replies
    1. Like most of these shooters, the warning signs were everywhere.

      Delete
  17. Relax everyone, nothing's going to change.

    There'll be some talk about 'this has to stop' but tae a good look at who we are. The only good that might come out of this is a realization of how useless the cop are.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good to see you mr. ducky. We were starting to worry about you. And so optimistic, as usual! ;)

      -FJ

      Delete
    2. Yes Ducky... it is good to hear from you.

      Delete
    3. Ducky,

      Thanks for stopping by! Hope all is well with you.

      Thank you for introducing me to Matt Taibbi and Glenn Greenwald.

      Delete
    4. (((Thought Criminal)))June 2, 2022 at 4:46:00 AM CDT

      Hey Ducky how's it hangin! Good to see you back around, mon frenemy lol

      Delete
    5. Duck! I'd given you up for dead or badly disabled.

      I hope that your health is hanging in there.

      Delete
    6. Hi Ducky! I am so happy to see you here on AOWs site. You were missed! (even if I never agreed with you ... :) )

      Delete
  18. Ducky! Seriously good to see you ....AOW is right, we've been worried about you.....hoping you're well!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well first there was hip replacement surgery.
      Then they found a malignant growth in my eye socket that has responded well to radiation.

      As the doctor said, I'm a tough old guy.

      Delete
    2. Duck,
      Cancer of the eye -- both socket and soft tissue -- is typically not painful and, if caught early enough, has a good 5-year survival rate. And if you're still in Boston, there you have among the best eye institutes in the world.

      How is your vision in the affected eye?

      Delete
  19. ANONYMOUS is me...suddenly, I had to change some stuff to comment and I'm not even sure this will work...???What happened!?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Z,
      Blogger acts up when "improvements" are made by Blogger's "techs."

      Delete
  20. AOW...from your post; ".If you own a gun and believe that even minimal gun control is not necessary, then you are borderline scum." There are people who actually believe our country has no gun control laws.....What's missing? And there are people who don't realize that it seems like the more gun laws, the more crime ...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My former neighbor chooses to ignore the fact that America does have gun control laws. He often ignores facts that don't fit his ideology. **sigh**

      Delete
  21. What is going ON, AOW? suddenly, I can't comment without filling out my info every time?! :-(

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Z,
      Blogger acts up when "improvements" are made by Blogger's "techs."

      Delete
    2. AOW and Z I forgot whose blog I read this on but they changed their comments to 'pop up' and they said that it resolved those issues of signing in everytime. I am not on blogger so I do not know if it is true but I can say FJ does 'pop up comments' on his site and it is easier to comment and your info is remembered unless you choose to logout. Just my piddly 2 cents worth! :)

      Delete
    3. @Z,
      It's when your comments "pop up" in a separate window, usually over top of your post.

      Delete
  22. I think a lot of the animosity in this issue comes down to the fact that, to people who are indifferent or dislike guns, the gun fetish gripping a faction of America is... weird. Weirder than goths. Weirder than the practice of wikka or being obnoxiously into trains or synthesizers. Wierder than the most reviled clique of the dorkiest highschool of the most freakhinfested state in America.
    But i like eccentrics: I just don't think for the average person a gun is an effective tool for defence (unless you're really out in the sticks and like an hour away from the nearest emergency call out)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I just don't think for the average person a gun is an effective tool for defence.

      It usually is when one is defending against a gun or other lethal implement.

      Delete
    2. Familiarity breeds contempt. Unfamiliarity breeds fear. Of men and/ or guns

      -FJ

      Delete
    3. Our free speech rights and gun rights are unique.

      Delete
    4. Jez,
      I just don't think for the average person a gun is an effective tool for defence (unless you're really out in the sticks and like an hour away from the nearest emergency call out)

      An hour?

      Ten minutes is an eternity when one needs an emergency response!

      And minutes cost lives.

      Delete
    5. Or even 5 seconds AOW. I had a friend who saved his wife's life when there was less than 5 seconds to do it with an armed intruder in their house. An intruder who was cunning enough to cut the phone line to the house before entering (this was long before cell phones). His wife was in fear and panic over guns, but they came to an agreement to keep one defensive weapon in the house. It was well placed and saved their lives.
      BAYSIDER

      Delete
    6. "An hour" is an example, not a threshold.

      Delete
    7. @ jez,
      As has been pointed out for years; the police are only minutes away when your life can be measured in seconds.
      If you are willing to throw away your life, are you willing to throw away the lives of your wife and children?

      Delete
  23. Dave,
    I agree with Marianne Williamson that we have a spiritual crisis. I also believe there is an economic component to it based on everything I've read because people say it, so many people are economically desperate. And I think they are intertwined.

    I recommend to everyone the honestly with Bari Weiss podcast The latest episode is her talking with Marianne Williamson.

    ReplyDelete


  24. Mr. Silverfiddle needs to be RE-PROGRAMED, as he has gone astray, the Mother Ship and it's inhabitants are scrambling like the Rats they are.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you. It makes my day when I can upset or piss off someone who talks about reprogramming. You're a horrible person and I'm glad we disagree.

      Delete
  25. Silver has said... "Gun grabbers refuse to explore root causes and instead go for the facile, surface answers."

    and

    "We can't figure it out so let's just take all the guns away" is low IQ thinking. And anyway, taking all guns away isn't realistic."


    You'll get no argument from me on either of these points. But few if any serious people in the states are calling for eliminating guns in America.

    Most of us are calling for registration, competency tests, age limits to purchase certain very destructive guns, limits on ammo, etc. And we'd like to track across the country where these tragedies happen, how destructive they are and what we believe the root causes are when it happens. Not a single one of those suggestions would impact ppl like you, CI and others to protect your families.

    Not one bit.

    Most of us also agree with the governor of Texas and other GOP politicos that there is a huge mental health component at play here. So we advocate for some common sense approaches that I've mentioned before to equate mental illness with other health problems, fund research and enable ppl to get the care we need.

    But we can't get any conservatives to even engage in the conversation of how to solve the mental health issues, even though they admit, it is a major cause of these frequent shootings.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Perhaps you'd do better at convincing us, Dave, if your state, local, and federal prosecutors enforced the existing gun laws instead of applying them randomly to punish people like Kyle Rittenhouse.

      -FJ

      Delete
    2. ps - There are no "mental health issues"... there are only symptoms of a sick society/ social relations. They are the "contraries" of Little Big Man.

      -FJ

      Delete
    3. ...and no matter what "charms" we come up with to accompany your "medicinal leaves", they are never good enough for you to agree in applying (Plato, "Charmides"). You denounce ALL "noble lies', but most especially, those which advocate for "temperance". For most like you aren't liberals, you're libertines.

      -FJ

      Delete
    4. ...and you prefer the inconsistent and inauthentic position in all discourse... the one occupied by the Master, and not the Analyst.

      Delete
    5. ...although you, personally are "authentic"... just "inconsistent".

      -FJ

      Delete
    6. @Dave - many of those points you list would impact any gun owner. You just believe that the impact is minimal, because it doesn't affect you.

      And not many people are calling for banning of all guns.....but many are calling for banning a an entire class of firearms; POTUS seemed to be calling for the banning of even more.

      Were I a policymaker, I'd be more than happy to engage in conversations on the mental health issue.

      Delete
    7. The Left deals with its' "mental health issues" through legitimization by paralogy and media monopoly... not consistent application of the laws, CI.

      -FJ

      -FJ

      Delete
    8. Gun registration? Hell no.

      Figure out how to get the guns out of the hands of the criminals first, then come to us and start talking about regulating everybody else.

      Delete
    9. I often wonder why conservatives don't readily engage in a <a href="https://youtu.be/DFwZQIf9qPc”>serious discourse</a> with Leftists on subjects like gun control...

      -FJ

      Delete
    10. @SF - Gun registration? Hell no.

      Yep. Any Federal or State registration list would have cobwebs in it......

      Delete
    11. Well -FJ, my state and local leaders and prosecutors were no match for a guy who killed 60 from an elevated vantage point in Vegas.

      Again, as I've stated many times, we're a 2nd Amendment place. But, it isn't just criminals doing the killing, until they do. This kid in Uvalde and the one yesterday in Tulsa, just recently got guns.

      Most of you seem to be saying that these deaths are the cost we must bear to preserve your rights.

      Not a single one of you has offered up any hint, beyond CI saying he'd be open to discussion on mental health and some red flag options, of any solution.

      You've all pointed out where my ideas suck, and I get it.

      So where are your solutions? Suggestions?

      Don't tell where my ideas won't work, give the anti gun side something. Anything concrete.

      Real mental health funding? Real change across the country on that level? Will any of you support national comprehensive policies designed to bring about real change? And if so, what is it?

      Delete
    12. How about enforcing more civility and respect between members of Congress, the Executive Branch, and Judiciary, and less of Matrix Resurrections.

      -FJ

      Delete
    13. How about enforcing more civility and respect between members of Congress, the Executive Branch, and Judiciary, and less of Matrix Resurrections.

      Delete
    14. One more time... in 3 chunks...
      In 3 chunks this time... one link per chunk:

      How about enforcing more civility and respect between members of Congress, the Executive Branch, and Judiciary, and less of ...this, for starters. Then perhaps an Hippocratic oath and pledges by the members of the "influencer" journalistic class to stop trying to influence, and begin trying to inform us. I'm done with ...

      Delete
    15. #2

      <a href='https://farmersletters.blogspot.com/2021/06/our-hyperreality-legitimized-by.html">legitimization by paralogy and media monopoly</a> and facilitated through tech censorship. Those two changes alone would make for a good start, but I'm sure it wouldn't generate as many clicks as are needed to generate increased political "power" from the hyper-real consumerist human batteries of...

      Delete
    16. #2 again

      legitimization by paralogy and media monopoly and facilitated through tech censorship. Those two changes alone would make for a good start, but I'm sure it wouldn't generate as many clicks as are needed to generate increased political "power" from the hyper-real consumerist human batteries of ...

      Delete
    17. The Lacanian Analyst of the Matrix Resurrection's "hyper-reality" who manipulates our "feelings" by monitoring our "clickage" and gives us "stories" to make us click...

      -FJ

      Delete
    18. ...and increase the politician's "power" whilst diminishing our own.

      -FJ

      Delete
    19. America isn't broken, our politics are. Politics are the catalyst for all our unhappiness, depression, and despair, as two similar, yet opposing, utopian factions fight for dominance, by splitting us apart and making us "angry".... making us "hate".

      -FJ

      Delete
    20. The Fisher King has offered up his grail of "forgiveness". What's yours, Parsifal?

      Delete
    21. In a world of bread and circuses, it's time to watch a different circus. A more "civil" one with fewer clowns.

      Delete
    22. The divisive rhetoric emanating from DC and many State Houses is both inflammatory and completely out of control. Leaders need to start leading... BY EXAMPLE. As Trump has shown, two can play the game, and until the Uniparty A-Team tones it down, the will continue to GET whatever trash they give. Tech alone won't be able to censor/ cancel it or us out.

      -FJ

      Delete
    23. Dave, this is a very long thread, but I posted a link about how we can use existing laws in every state and the federal level to quickly adjudicate someone's fitness for gun ownership.

      I also posted a link to a secret service study showing that almost 100% of mass shooting murderers showed easily observable warning signs.

      Linking the previous two paragraphs together, we can bring in people giving off signs, have them evaluated by mental health professionals, and bring the issue before a judge of banning them from buying weapons or removing their weapons.

      Gun grabbers don't want to hear any of that.

      Delete
  26. Silver... as to mail order guns from days gone by, sure, it was a thing.

    But if Billy was pissed off at a party, and didn't have a gun, he couldn't make it happen overnight. And chances are, he was not buying a high capacity magazine with it or a gun that shoot 45 bullets in a minute.

    By the way... have you seen this article? Kristof leans left, but I've seen him support and encourage in his writings the work and devotion of many religious conservatives.

    Reducing Shootings

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sure he could. Gun stores existed back in the good old days. Hell, you could pick up a gun at Sears.

      Can you define 'high capacity'?

      Delete
    2. (((Thought Criminal)))June 2, 2022 at 11:39:00 AM CDT

      My great-grandfather, a full blooded Cherokee, was blown away in a pool hall by a shotgun in an argument with a friend that went too far. They were insulting each other (in I guess the 1930s equivalent of a cut-down, dissing contest) and the subject turned to the guy making fun of a mole on my great grandmother's cheek. My great grandfather in turn made a remark about some blemish on the other guy's girlfriends anatomy (thigh, butt, the stories differ) so the guy walked 3 miles home and back with a shotgun and blasted my great grandfather. (Apparently there *was* some blemish on the other woman's body, it's unknown if my great grandfather truly had firsthand, eyewitness familiarity with it lol).

      If someone is mad enough to shoot someone, it doesn't matter the hassles in place to get a gun.

      Delete
    3. CI... High capacity? I don't know. Really. What would a guy like you accept? I mean in looking for a solution, I assume each side has to give so I hope the answer isn't nothing.

      Like, what would make a difference? Something? Nothing?

      Delete
    4. TC... I get the shot gun angle. But if the Uvalde shooter only had access to a shot gun, his ability to kill people quickly would have been greatly reduced. I also think those cops, knowing all he had was a shot gun, as opposed to an AR 15, might have rushed that room.

      So yes, a guy can knife people, beat them with a baseball bat, or as someone suggested to me, throw rocks at them too, but the numbers of dead, before others rush the killer will be substantially lower.

      Delete
    5. (((Thought Criminal)))June 2, 2022 at 2:32:00 PM CDT

      Not really. My KSG-12 holds 15 rounds and a feed selector to alternate between whatever kinds of 12 gauge rounds I put in it the two tubes, from birdshot to buckshot to tactical slugs to armo-piercing barbell bola slugs to white phosphorus Dragonfire incendiaries to mini-grenades if the Army will come up off them lol. And the faster I fire it, the less weight of the ammo it has in it, so it becomes more accurate and easier to sling around. With a Sherman tank style muzzle brake on it, it kicks like a flea, no real recoil on it so it's party time with each pump. The only design flaw it has is the shells are ejected downward so you might roll your ankle advancing on the next poor dumb bastard. My Taurus Judge revolver is palm sized, easy to slip in a pocket, and can fire both .44 Colt or .410 shotgun rounds. Wish I had two of those, one for each pocket.

      The efficiency and fire-rate of weapons has no bearing whatsoever on if a cop is going to rush a shooter or live to give press conferences about how they only fear for their lives if it's an unarmed man not complying with their contradictory commands.

      Delete
    6. TC. Damn... I want one of those!

      Delete
    7. (((Thought Criminal)))June 3, 2022 at 4:05:00 AM CDT

      KSG-12s are fun. I like the Kalashnikov-based Saiga-12 better but the Keltec looks like a Star Wars Imperial Stormtrooper blaster rifle and it's compact, only about as long as your arm from fingertip to armpit so very maneuverable in tight quarters. The perfect door breacher lol. The muzzle brake mod just makes it sicker.

      Delete
    8. The Dragonfire is cool, but I don't know if I want to employ a weapon inside my house that could end up burning it down. lol

      Delete
    9. ...but it would be especially great for a Kyle Rittenhouse type night-time encounter... no way the crowd would charge you after firing that!

      -FJ

      Delete
    10. (((Thought Criminal)))June 3, 2022 at 7:59:00 AM CDT

      I've set my yard on fire with them. Good clean fun lol

      Delete
    11. (((Thought Criminal)))June 3, 2022 at 8:09:00 AM CDT

      Nobody wants to be shot with anything but I guarantee 5.56mm, hydrostatic shock and organ damage included, is preferable to getting hit by any variety of the things that can be put in a 12 gauge shotgun shell.

      Delete
    12. Nothing says, "Get the 'f out of my house!" clearer than a Mossberg 12 gauge pump round being chambered...

      -FJ

      Delete
    13. (((Thought Criminal)))June 5, 2022 at 6:25:00 AM CDT

      Click-clack the rack for the attack!

      Delete
  27. Whoopi Goldberg tells gun owners 'you can’t have' AR-15s anymore. Because SHE’S Sick of it!

    ReplyDelete
  28. AOW, I don't like to do this, and don't like it too much when it's done to me, but I SO badly want you to listen to the music video on my blog I had to come by! I think you'll love it . ALSO: to all: WE HAVE GUN LAWS. Yes, we do..... It's not our fault leftwing DA's don't care.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Z, no problem. You're one of our longest blogging friends!

      Delete
  29. "Why does anyone need 10 guns?"
    Why does anyone need 10 golf clubs, or 10 recipes books, or 10 pairs of shoes, or 10 pieces of stereo equipment? Why does any woman have 10 colors of lipstick? We could all chime in here.

    Boy did you hit a nerve! The California Rifle and Pistol Association recently published an article about "gun deaths." It supports what earlier researchers found, that if you remove death by gang banger from these stats, the U.S. has one of the lowest rates of "death by gun" compared to other nations like the UK to whom we are often compared by people like your neighbors.

    Specifically: US = 5.4 with gang involvement; 0.8 without. The UK is 1.2; Germany 1.2, Australia, 0.9. Not sure what the "per unit" is, but it's clear the bulk of "death by gun" comes from one lawless element predominantly found in the U.S.

    BAYSIDER

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ Baysider.

      "if you remove death by gang banger from these stats, the U.S. has one of the lowest rates of "death by gun" compared to other nations like the UK to whom we are often compared by people like your neighbors."

      Bingo! and thank you for your comment. This comes from FBI and DOJ data analysis of crime states. In urban areas, they estimated up to 80% of all violent crime was gang related.

      Delete
  30. There are an estimated 140 million gun owners in the US.

    Last year there were 19,384 gun murders

    That is 1.29 murders for every 10,000 gun owners.

    And I am being generous with the numbers. I don't have the stats, but the number of gun murders by people prohibited from possessing a firearm has to be incredibly high.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You seriously trying to slosh some math figures around to imply mass shooting in our country is being overhyped?

      Delete
    2. Poor Ronald. You must have reading comprehension issues. I'm pointing out that literally at least 99.99% of gun owners are not the problem.

      Also, did you see Baysider's comment about gang violence? This is from 2009, but I haven't seen any contradictory studies: DOJ estimates up to 80% of violent crime could be attributed to gang activity.

      https://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/FedCrimes/story?id=6773423&page=1

      Only a totalitarian who is dishonest or who possesses poor thinking skills would punish 99.99% of people for the actions of a minuscule few.

      Delete
    3. Your argument reminds me of a family member who about 20 years ago was rambling on and on of how climate change was an unquestionable hoax (back when “hoax” wasn’t some scapegoat word to downplay another scandal). He repeatedly claimed that Hummers were more climate friendly than the Toyota Camry. I kept prodding him to clarify and finally pulled out his rationale- that because of the ratio of Camrys on the road verses Hummers were like 100,000 to 1, Hummers were unfairly targeted.

      Maybe we should do some ratio numbers to somehow justify Pearl Harbor or 9/11? I mean, as you’ve recently argued, what’s a measly million dead from COVID?

      But then, unlike COVID, there’s presently no need as there’s nothing there to abet the Party of Trump or to “own the Dems”.

      Delete
    4. Murder are real. I don't argue they are a hoax. People killing school children and shooting up neighborhoods is a horrible problem. Parroting facile talking points doesn't help. Bringing information to the table and exploring all angles does.

      Did you see my comment about 100% of mass shooters giving off warning signs, according to Secret Service research?

      Did you see the link I provided stating all 50 states and the federal government have existing laws that we could use to quickly detain a potential shooter, have him psychiatrically evaluated, and have it all adjudicated by a judge?

      That is an immediately accessible approach.

      What say you?

      Delete
    5. Then they have to actually apply these laws! Case in point, SF: This February, David Rojas killed his 3 children and their chaperone, then himself in Sacramento. All the laws that many are calling for now - ones that already exist - failed to stop him. 1) He was in the country illegally and enjoined from possessing a firearm; 2) a week prior he was arrested for DUI and battery and US Immigration served a detainer on him while in jail. California law prohibits law enforcement from cooperating, so he was released on bond 1 week before the killings; 3) he was the subject of a domestic violence restraining order and could not possess a firearm. None of these laws stopped him. Prior to the killings he was on an involuntary psychiatric hold because of statements he made about harming his family. Had California been even 1/10th as aggressive in enforcing immigration laws as gun laws it's possible these children would be alive today.
      BAYSIDER

      Delete
    6. @ Baysider +++ Another excellent point!

      Delete
    7. Baysider,
      Malpractice of government!

      Delete
    8. Baysider nailed it. It's the inconsistent and often times DELIBERATELY INCOMPETENT application of the existing laws that is the REAL UNDERLYING PROBLEM.

      -FJ

      Delete
    9. Why do conservatives have no faith in new gun laws? BECAUSE THE EXISTING LAWS AREN'T ENFORCED!

      -FJ

      Delete
    10. Silver stated... "Only a totalitarian who is dishonest or who possesses poor thinking skills would punish 99.99% of people for the actions of a minuscule few."

      I'm not sure the parents of those kids in Uvalde, or the children and families of the dead doctors in Iowa would agree with you.

      And I'd argue, yes somewhat exasperated, that a lot more Americans lose their lives each year in random mass violent gun attacks, even at only the 99.99% rate you cite, than, according to every statistic we have, are disenfranchised by fraudulent voting. And yet the GOP has been working day and night to fix that non-existent problem.

      If 99.99% is a low number, and the great majority of gun owners are lawful citizens and deserving of trust, thus making laws regulating some aspects of gun ownership are onerous, then why is that not also true when it comes to voting?

      I realize the issue can be flipped to come back at me, but at least as it relates to voting, we're not seeing mass death as a result of our .01% non compliance rate.

      Delete
    11. I agree. We should make the laws concerning gun ownership equal with/to those required for voting... with same day "provisional" gun ownership.

      We can't see mass death from voting? Biden's war in Ukraine isn't a "danger" for American society (Russia is threatening to NUKE us)?

      -FJ

      Delete
    12. btw- I assume we also need voter "background checks" now that includes the most pertinent question, "Are you a US citizen?" lol!

      -FJ

      Delete
  31. Another interesting pursuit: Compare the murder rate of countries with the % gun ownership of countries. This could cut either way...

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. From Silver's first link... according to the statistics, all from pre pandemic 2018, the US has the murder rate of any western democratic industrial country. 300% higher than the next highest countries, England and France. Yet way lower than many of the places our former president cited as sh*#hole countries.

      From the second chart. the US has an estimates 120 guns per 100 persons. Canada at 34 guns per 100 people is the next closest western style democracy.

      Delete
    2. When you remove gangbangers from those stats, Dave, the U.S. death-by-gun rate drops by 85%, and is much lower than most countries. So why do we have a narrow slice of our population doing most of this kind of killing? That question needs to be faced.

      Furthermore, these stats never feature reasonable estimates of lives saved by a civilian's possession of a firearm to offer a more balanced and nuanced view. I personally know 2 cases.
      BAYSIDER

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    4. @ Anon;
      This isn't the OK Corral and you ain't Wyatt Earp.
      We don't do shootouts or blog gossip, take it somewhere else!

      Delete
  32. SF - I missed your link to the drugs. Yes. I posted on this at length today over at Layla's. Pharma knows a lot more about their drugs than they tell doctors. This is well known now - but it took a long time. I'm a fan of Dr. Peter Breggin who is called "the conscience of psychiatry" for speaking out on this early (his first book was 1994) and often.
    BAYSIDER

    ReplyDelete

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