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Monday, May 9, 2022

Freedom Of Religion?

Please watch the following short video (sorry for the advertisement):
 

Read the article HERE (dated April 24, 2022). But be warned: videos will play as soon as the page loads.

What say you about the Satanic Temple's plans?

75 comments:

  1. In a secular society, whatever you are prepared to give to one, then you must also be prepared to give to another. Religion belongs to parents and their churches, not to public schools and not in any form. If school systems are going to make room at the table for outlets of Christian fellowship, then anticipate also Satanic groups, LBGT groups, Five Pillar Groups, and any other concoction a sick mind can manufacture. Here's an odd notion: I think it would be just dandy if schools would teach academic subjects and let all that other crap go by the wayside.

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    1. ^ 100% spot on. A much more polished way to say exactly what I was going to write.

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    2. Well put. I hold pretty much the identical position.

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    3. Obviously you did not attend the same public schools, that is if you went to public schools as my cousins did and my husband who remember praying in school. It was no problem up until the early 60s. Now everything is securlar since that time and people have lost their minds and humanity. There is an appropriate time for "Godly prayer" and if that cannot be public then Christians are not worth their salt.

      @CI I knew you would agree with Mustang lol. :)

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    4. @Layla - What can I say? Mustang almost always makes really good points.

      To your last sentence, it's not that Christians can't pray in public (they can and do).....it's that they can't compel the members of a secular institution to do likewise. To make it a mandatory, participatory function. THAT was the problem that you claim above didn't exist.

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    5. @CI "To make it a mandatory, participatory function. THAT was the problem that you claim above didn't exist."

      I was not suggesting that prayer be made mandatory or that any form of religion be pushed on anyone. Those who choose to pray should be allowed to and those that wish not to well, their loss.

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    6. Cool, then there's no problem. Those who choose to pray.....already can. Always have been.

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    7. Layla,
      if you went to public schools as my cousins did and my husband who remember praying in school. It was no problem up until the early 60s.

      That was true in Northern Virginia until the SCOTUS decisions in 1962-1963.

      In more rural parts of Virginia, prayer and Bible reading continued for many years.

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    8. Yes, that is true where I grew up also. It is truly a sad time we are seeing in this nation. People pitted against one another due to religion, political ideologies, prayer, and so many other issues. There is always turmoil in life, but I have never witnessed it so abundantly as I do now.

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  2. Someone is bound to come along and bemoan about how we've "taken God out of the schools". If you believe in God, he is always with you, no?

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    1. Given the dismal test scores, I would never entrust teaching religion to government schools.

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    2. Your comment reminds me of older folks observing that in most classrooms back in the 50s I guess, the 10 commandments would be posted on the wall. I don't think anybody was offended by that, and even if you are a stone cold atheist, most of them are probably pretty good rules to live by.

      I've said it many times and I'll say it again, the problem with people wanting to remove God and religion from everything is that they have nothing to replace a width.

      This reminds me of non-believer types like, say, Christopher hitchens, who nonetheless felt that they codified religion did provide everybody some ground rules to rally around. Many years like you feared complete withdrawal of religion from the public square.

      We are pretty much in a society of moral anarchy, and that doesn't do anyone any good.

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    3. I certainly don't count myself as one who wants to remove God and religion from 'everything', not really sure what that means to begin with. But unless the curriculum is something like world religions....I don't see a need for overt proselytizing any one religion. In schools, references to religious faith [from the institutions direction] can be replaced by any number of subjects necessary for a proper education.

      You might have heard, that there is no shortage of places where on can go to learn about, and commune with like-minded others, about religion. Sarcasm intended.

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    4. CI, I wasn't attacking you, just adding to the conversation. I do not want schools teaching religion. The problems there are obvious and multifarious.

      I'm simply observing that many non-religious people have given a nod to the practical purpose and benefits to society of some religious standards.

      My next point follows. Those who have been avid to rip down all vestiges and influences of our Judeo-Christian heritage (I'm not including you in this) have failed to construct anything in its place. Morality can flow from secular founts, by definition.

      The evanescent flavor-of-the-day 'morality' of the progressive left is a poor substitute and has the same dictatorial tendencies as a theocracy.

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    5. (((Thought Criminal)))May 9, 2022 at 7:03:00 PM CDT

      When a surly lout is thrown out of a bar / public speaking event / comedy show / whatever, no one is replacing the ejected. When a surgeon removes a cancerous growth, there is usually no effort to replace the removed part. When a death sentence is carried out, there is no guarantee there is a baby conceived that day that won't become a death row criminal. Why do we vaccinate against diseases? Pull weeds from a garden? Go to war?

      So who is the nativity scene on the lawn of the city hall for? The Ten Commandments placard on the classroom wall?

      What happens to the faith of believers when these are removed? Did anyone ever propose that these displays are thaumaturgical wards against evil without which we are all, or at least someone is doomed?

      Is a bare city hall lawn a tacit endorsement of atheism? What if people dressed normal on Halloween? Does God need us to make Joel Osteen's Ferrari Italia payments?

      Can Karen ever be satisfied?

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    6. @SF - I didn't feel attacked, just stating for the record, and other readers....that I think religion certainly has it's place, for whomever wants to partake of it. And I agree with your post, and certainly the last paragraph.

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    7. TC,
      Please see my comments below on the law flowing from the people. As this nation becomes less religious, the laws will reflect that, as it should be.

      Having said that, a society needs a shared set of morality, religious or secular, doesn't matter, but that body of mores needs to be generally shared and accepted by the people in the society. Broad, high-level Judeo-Christian principles* used to fill that role. They clearly don't anymore.

      *- Judeo-Christian is a nebulous concept. The best way I can describe it is how group military prayers used to go in a public, non-church setting. "Oh God, (insert non-sectarian-specific prayer) Amen. No, "In Jesus' name," or other expressions exclusive to a single religion.

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    8. (((Thought Criminal)))May 9, 2022 at 9:05:00 PM CDT

      Accommodating the freedom of expression with a mandatory moment of silence. ;)

      I don't follow the logic that society is made more or less moral by its displaying or not displaying religious or secular iconography. That devolves shared morality into something like sports team fantasies. And from there, opening inquiries into how many drugs were involved in the decision to bring Jared Goff into the NFL, when there's far better defense-reading, playbook mastering quarterbacks out there including your mom and mine. I digress.

      Our "shared morality" should begin and end with the US Constitution. If General Motors and Chrysler need a bailout, let the Catholic Church bail them out if they want to. Government shouldn't be in the altruistic charity business, or in any place where a decision to sponsor a Christian club over a Satanic club or vice versa has to be made with money extracted from us all at the business end of taxation's gunpoint anyway.

      Religions and shared morality self-perpetuated just fine without government subsidies.

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    9. SF: "I don't think anybody was offended by [10 commandments], and even if you are a stone cold atheist, most of them are probably pretty good rules to live by."

      I wasn't offended, but it was the wording of the 2nd commandment ("... I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me ...") that was the final straw for my adolescent faith. I don't doubt that it's familiar to you guys, but I suspect that a large fraction of believers haven't properly let that bit sink in.

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    10. Jez,
      "... I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me ..."

      Let's complete that citation: "and showing mercy unto thousands who love Me, and keep My commandments."

      Even into adulthood, my mother was puzzled by that portion because her father was a binge alcoholic (6 months sober, 6 months drunk) and a downright nasty person when drunk. In fact, that whole family (Mom's grandfather, uncle, and one aunt in particular) were, let's say, undesirables of one sort or another.

      "I'm in real trouble!" my mother thought for many years.

      Finally, in a Bible study when Mom was in her 40s, she brought up those words which found so troubling. The minister, an excellent leader of a Bible studies, which I took over the years, adequately explained the words you found so troubling.

      I don't recall all of the explanation, but a portion of it had to do with individual accountability as opposed to group (tribal, and the Hebrews were a tribe at the time) accountability (salvation), but only if one takes into account the entire verse; the other part of the explanation was that children will, typically, follow in the ways of error of their parents, grandparents, etc. Therefore, parents have a serious burden!

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    11. Jez and AOW,

      Much of the OT can be read as practical secular advice. If you reject God (or, whatever the natural order is) and instead go off and do stupid and selfish things, it can have repercussions not just on you but on your family or clan. Think multi-generational poverty.

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    12. TC,
      I don't disagree with anything you said. CI and I probably got a little off-topic. A government will and should reflect the values of the people.

      We are a smelting pot of myriad competing tribes gripped in an interminable all-against-all struggle to the death.

      We have become the Untied State of Amreeka, a squatting ground for everybody and respect for nothing.

      We make the Balkans look like homogeneous Japan.

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    13. @TC - "Our "shared morality" should begin and end with the US Constitution."

      Well said. It's difficult for me to understand any opposition to that.

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    14. (((Thought Criminal)))May 10, 2022 at 7:45:00 AM CDT

      Argh. My phone's auto-corrupt changed "sports team fandoms" to "sports team fantasies," but at least not much meaning was lost.

      @SF - comparing us to the Balkans might be a little off the mark. I like to think America is one big squabbling trailer park community that unites to beat down an outsider that messes with any one of us. All new residents from the Irish to the Mexicans have to go through a generational hazing ritual first ;)

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    15. "Much of the OT can be read as practical secular advice."

      Problem is the 2nd commandment has no secular application. But yes, if you need to live with it these are the interpretations you'd have to settle on. If that is what it's supposed to mean, I'd have written the Bible differently(!) -- I might not have the Lord's flair for rhetoric, but at least my edition could have spared Always' mother from worrying about 2nd hand guilt for half her life. I know it could be a translation issue, but that form of words gives too much the impression that multi-generational poverty etc. is something God actively pursues, or at least deliberately designed into creation as a feature, rather than a regrettable side-effect.

      It's a vivid memory. There I was, expecting/hoping to be inspired or uplifted by the Bible, when suddenly that verse hit me like I was Wile E Coyote running full speed into a painted tunnel! I'd read it before of course, weird how it hadn't grabbed my attention until then.

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    16. One of the recurring themes of the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, is that the collection of novelists created and fleshed out a God character that discourages and pu,nishes individual free will with the threat and ex ecution of collective punishments. Of particularly insightful note, this God kicks humanity out of paradise returns to wipe out most of the humanity he exiled with a world-destroying flood BEFORE he chats up anyone among the survivors about his surrender conditions and rules to live by going forward. Precision-guided wrath comes later...

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  3. I read the satanic bible years ago. It's all a goof. As they say in the video, really, they are atheists who do not believe in God or Satan, and they just use a mocking, trolling way to say so. If you look at what they are teaching, its not devil worship, doing evil, etc. It's secular humanism only with a sneering, nasty attitude.

    I agree with Mustang's comments. There are no grounds to ban them.

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  4. The Satanic Temple must be run by some Alinsky disciples...Rule 4, "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." is very much in evidence (ie- flag flying).

    -FJ

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    1. I agree. Their purpose is to run All religion out of the public square, or poison the whole environment by having their idiotic trollish pseudo religion included.

      Turn it all into a farce. That is their goal.

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    2. Blackstone observed that the law flows from the people. That is why at one time in this nation our laws had a very judeo-christian moral component to them.

      As we become more of a neopagan nation than a Judeo-Christian nation, the law will naturally reflect that. You cannot impose morality on people who don't want it by force of law.

      Those compelled to proselytize on behalf of their God and their religion, will have to do so by the power of persuasion, not by law. And I don't think that is such a bad thing.

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    3. I think that ours is the "problem of the cynic". Christian culture demands that we demonstrate 'caritas' or 'charity' derived from the belief that others are normally acting in good faith. Cynic's, on the other hand (ie - Diogenes of Sinope) reject all such social conventions and seek to mock them by flaunting the Spirit of the Law by holding others to its' Letters. All politeness is disregarded. Shock and outrage is the goal of the cynic's challenge. Theirs is a desire to become free FROM the religion of others, not to practice beliefs sincerely held.

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    4. ...of course, not all religions have a god, which is why Rick DeSantis is having such a good time trolling secular liberalism... it's a kind of "strike" in protest against political virtue signaling.

      -FJ

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    5. On the pro's and con's of virtue signaling.

      -FJ

      ps -Legislative virtue signaling should be outlawed.

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    6. ...that includes having a flagpole outside a government building available for use by NGO's and/or charities. Cultural Capitalism and its' governmental sponsors have become a curse upon humanity.

      -FJ

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    7. ...government used as a tool to provide capitalism with a human face.

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  5. Farmer,

    Your "problem of the cynic" comment was quite trenchant and incisive. I'm going to be pondering that for awhile.

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    1. Excerpts:

      The problem of the cynic arises from a refusal to compromise. He has begun like all fools and children (which are the same thing) by taking the world at face value, only to be disillusioned by the inevitable discovery that the world is more complicated, more interesting and more treacherous than a perfect world ought to be.
      ---
      The ''sincere'' person is neither fool nor cynic. He knows the world is not always perfect. Not always. The ''always'' is a vital qualifier if you are a ''sincere'' person, because it allows for the possibility that sometimes the world is, indeed, perfect.
      ---
      Fools and cynics are our romantics, either childish or disillusioned. Sincerity, as sincere people say, is where it's at. Thus the wisdom of the advice in the Flanders and Swann song: Always be sincere, whether you mean it or not.


      -FJ

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    2. Writings in a bathroom stall:

      Those who write upon the walls
      Roll their sh*t into little balls...
      Those who read their words of wit
      Eat those little balls of sh*t.


      -FJ

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  6. (((Thought Criminal)))May 9, 2022 at 7:19:00 PM CDT

    The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan fought hard to get their organization name on an "Adopt A Highway" sign here locally. In response, the Missouri Legislature designated that stretch of I-55 the "Rosa Parks Memorial Highway." But what really got rid of the KKK and their state-issued Adopt A Highway sign was people driving by and pelting then with wet trash, rotting vegetables, eggs, and dirty diapers when they came around to fulfill their chosen obligation to pick up litter on the side of the road. Not long after that, the KKK stopped picking up trash, and their Adopt-A-Highway sign and status was removed. The Rosa Parks Memorial Highway sign remains.

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  7. (((Thought Criminal)))May 9, 2022 at 11:08:00 PM CDT

    Some bands use Satanic imagery. Others just learn to play guitar really well.

    Let the dog catch the car. The car will be fine.

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  8. I'm trying to imagine the thought process of an organization formed for the purpose of teaching "Benevolence and Empathy, Critical Thinking, Problem Solving and Creative Expression" that would result in naming themselves "The Satan Club."

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    1. It's the same as a monkey who likes to wash his balls in a glass of whiskey. ;p

      -FJ

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    2. (((Thought Criminal)))May 10, 2022 at 10:13:00 AM CDT

      It's like the anti-social perverts that put pickles on fried chicken sandwiches (looking at you, Chik-Fil-A) who compound their disgusting effrontery by mislabeling this culinary blasphemy "Southern style." They do it just to piss people off.

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    3. (((Thought Criminal)))May 10, 2022 at 10:17:00 AM CDT

      (Real Southerners eat fried chicken on Sundays after church and they would break out shotguns on anyone that tried to put a pickle on it.)

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    4. Jayhawk, it's the old canard of logic versus religion. Which of course is a conceit of those who reject God. Religion and science are not incompatible.

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    5. Good point Jayhawk. They are naming themselves after the most famous and energetic rebel in history. The rest of that description is just chin music.
      BAYSIDER

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  9. I do not even begin to know how to comment on this other than to say, Good Lord! This is pure evil.

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  10. From the Constitution and the 1st Amendment, there is no "wall" of separation between the Church and State; only the provision that prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion”. In other words, an official religion of the US.
    A good legal argument/discription can be found at the "Law and Liberty" web site.

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    1. Establishing another 'religion' that wasn't the Constitution itself could likely be called polythe-ism as American cult-ure IS based in the Constitution and constitutes the universal ideological leitmotif (-ism) that directs our daily lives.

      -FJ

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    2. We can add whatever other musical and instrumental accompaniments (-isms) we wish to our own individual musical compositions, but they must all harmonize with that one, over-arching Constitutional leitmotif. Such is the duty and responsibility of every American citizen.

      -FJ

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    3. The seven classical elements of American theology

      -FJ.

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    4. the·ol·o·gy
      [
      THēˈäləjē]
      NOUN
      the study of the nature of God and religious belief:
      "a theology degree"

      religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed:
      "a willingness to tolerate new theologies" · [more]

      synonyms:
      religious studies · religion · scripture

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    5. The {more] from above: "Augustine assimilated Roman ideals into Christian theology"

      -FJ

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    6. When American Universities eliminated the "trivium/ quadrivium" "core-curriculum" for all undergraduates... we opened ourselves up to future generations of culty-cults and UN-ethical cults not based upon the western liberal tradition.

      Fear/hate "autocracy"? Bring back the classical-liberal curriculum! Don't want Authoritarian capitalism on the Chinese model? Bring back the classical-liberal curriculum.

      The historicism of marxism has been refuted, yet lives under a re-branding that now calls itself "progressivism". The idea that we in the West are historically "progressing" towards a more "just" society is a fallacy. It's Marxist historicism of the worst order. Every time the arc of history bends towards justice, it bends AWAY from justice's opposite virtue... prudence (aka wisdom).

      -FJ

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    7. FJ,
      The idea that we in the West are historically "progressing" towards a more "just" society is a fallacy. It's Marxist historicism of the worst order. Every time the arc of history bends towards justice, it bends AWAY from justice's opposite virtue... prudence (aka wisdom).

      Food for thought, and I think that I agree.

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    8. Get thee "on the right side of history", sinner! ;)

      -FJ

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    9. ...for History (the atheist's "Big Other") is watching!

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  11. Abortion Is the Death Penalty to Babies

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  12. The commenter said it best at close: They are doing the devil's work whether they think they are or not.

    The symbols we display and cherish speak to the nature of our culture. To excise Judeo-Christian visibility from the public square is to say "that's not us." Are there hypocrites among us? Where is that not true? But the preponderance of symbolism follows the culture.
    BAYSIDER

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    1. We're so far from "excising Judeo-Christian visibility from the public square", that the notion is laughable.

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  13. the right wing has always been about curtailing rights and the left has always been about expanding rights. I'll stick with expanding the rights of our people. The fascists on the right have no idea what a hornets nest they've poked this tim

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    1. When do I get the right to f'ing shoot you?

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    2. Every time a woman exercises her right to have an abortion, a father loses his right to raise his child.

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    3. Like the RIGHT to do nothing about the lack of baby formula to our children as illegal children are having delivered palets of formula? (I wonder why the supposed mtg FINALLY today at the WH about formula is closed to the press? What's so secret again?) Or the RIGHT to kill babies just before birth (congratulations, you should be so proud!), or the RIGHT to migrants to wear no masks whether they have covid or not while we're in trouble if we didn't? Or the RIGHT to have satan groups at schools? Yes, you should be SO proud of your marvelous FREEDOMS :-) What a joke.

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    4. We need to take more rights away from American citizens and give them to illegals, Z. And instead of fixing systemic bias', we just need to shift them around...

      -FJ

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    5. The Left hates order. They strive for increasing the arbitrary in hopes of escaping law's (order's) reach. Today, abortion until birth... tomorrow, post-birth abortions (like in Maryland). It's all about being 'arbitrary'.

      -FJ

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    6. And, if ALL the media was covering these stories, we could make a turn in the right (Right) direction...but Americans aren't hearing a LOT, sadly.

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    7. I love these comedy posts, even when they are low IQ and poorly-executed.

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