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Monday, November 22, 2021

Watch Tucker Carlson Tonight on November 22

The video below is not the November 22, 2021 edition of Tucker Carlson Tonight, but rather the opening monologue of the November 19, 2021 edition of Tucker Carlson Tonight

Even if you don't like Tucker Carlson, please, please watch:

Take note of the information in the link below — and either watch live or set your DVD-R: 

Some related reading: Kyle Rittenhouse is Free - and the Left is Enraged by Robert Spencer (November 19, 2021).  A must-read!


  1. The best of twitter happened Saturday night when Maria Shriver weighed in on Rittenhouse:

    I’m trying to take a beat to digest the Rittenhouse verdict. My son just asked me how it’s possible that he didn’t get charged for anything. How is that possible? I don’t have an answer for him.

    Your son asked you about Ted Kennedy?

    Ted Kennedy was Maria Shriver’s uncle, Mary Jo Kopechne still unavailable for comment.

    Like when your uncle killed that girl but stayed in the Senate?

    There were some terrific comments. Worth looking up the numerous threads that were out there.

  2. If Carlson really thought that propaganda didn't work, he would stop doing it. I don't read or watch him much, but what little I have I don't think I've ever caught him not being massively disingenuous.

    1. In the linked video, he misrepresents the prosecutor's point about crossing state lines. Of course you're allowed to do that, surely the point (which Carlson chose to evade) is whether this boy went out of his way to enter the fray.

    2. Jez,
      Over and over I hear on the mainstream media that Kyle Rittenhouse "crossed state lines with a gun." He did NOT take a gun across state lines.

      In fact, Kyle Rittenhouse worked in Kenosha, and his father also lived in Kenosha. Kyle Rittenhouse did indeed live with his mother in Antioch, Illinois, but that city is only a few minutes away from Kenosha.

    3. this and other strong arguments were available to Carlson, but instead he chose to attack a bizarre strawman about the legality of crossing state boundaries.

    4. That is not an example of being disingenuous. He made a solid legal point.

    5. and he made it because until the trial ended, the Democrat Infotainment Media Complex kept repeating the LIE over and over that he crossed state lines with a weapon.

      The press has all the credibility of a wino face down in the gutter who had beshatted himself.

    6. Many of the media and many various misinformed individuals EVEN NOW keep repeating the LIE over and over that he crossed state lines with a weapon.

      SF, Love your press-wino analogy!

    7. Me too, I particular enjoyed SF's creative conjugation of the verb :)
      Furthermore I agree with his assessment of the press, and I include Carson prominently in that assessment. I only watched it once so I may have missed it but I did not hear him argue against that point about carrying a weapon, I only heard him lay into a bizarre strawman about the legality of crossing a boundary in and of itself.

    8. Jez,. Probably me watching too much Scottish sitcoms lol

  3. Apparently falsely calling us "racists" has lost its' effect, so they've switched up and call us white supremacists now. That too will soon lose its' effect. Hypocrisy, thy name is "Democrat".

  4. “Kyle Rittenhouse is Free-and the Left is Enraged”

    I do get the “own the Dems” narrative sold by folk like Spencer as divisiveness and keeping the peons angry does seem to be a winning ticket for today’s so-called conservatives but if he,Tucker, and the like are your only source of news intake, you may have missed the multiple warnings of an acquittal turning “Own the Dems” into “Kill the Dems”.

    Now don't get me wrong as I don't think Kyle was a part of some conspiracy theory or was planted for some political agenda. I don't.

    There was already a hostile environment with Thump's Big Lie of a stolen election along with the follow up of a Trump supporting mob on Jan 6. FL Gov. Ron DeSantis just recently signed into law the removal of liability of drivers who choose to run over protesters (please don't confuse protectors with rioters as they're 2 different things). This was after the Charlottesville ordeal when Trump referred to the KKK etc. as "good people". And of course there was his rallies where he told his supporters to address the political opponents with "punch them in the face" , "beat the hell out of them (and he'd pay their legal expenses)" or when he alluded to graduating police cadets that it's okay to bash people's faces into police cruiser fenders. Remember "When the looting starts, the shooting starts”? How about GA Sen. Loeffler, running a TV ad to “eliminate the liberal scribes"? Or maybe Marjorie Taylor Greene posting a photo of her with an assault rifle next to political opponents reading “The Squad’s worst nightmare"? And this list of violence promoting is endless.

    Then came the Rittenhouse shooting which opened the floodgates of rhetoric from Trump and the right wing propaganda machine. Sen. Ron Johnson blamed it on the Gov failing to send in the National Guard. selling the notion that people need to take matters into their own hands to protect what's theirs. KY Rep. Massie openly praised Kyle. Tucker Carlson said “he had to maintain order when no one else would.” Former FL AG Pam Bondi called him “a little boy out there trying to protect his community” and “mitigate the chaos out there.” Conservative writers such as Rod Dreher wrote "he was ridding Kenosha of the enemy of civilization”.

    The Proud Boys, the white supremacy darlings of the Trump world, are now openly stating that the Rittenhouse verdict is a justification for ‘stacking up bodies like cord wood”.

    Get it? Don’t just “Own the Dems but Kill the Dems”.

    Now Rittenhouse makes a beeline to Carson Tucker to abet him in in this very endeavor.

    I could go on and on but the dangerous violent pattern from Trump and many of his followers have been brewing for years, often with many of them unaware or in denial of it. Trump's COVID response is a prime example as his administration openly stated that withholding needed supplies from blue states was politically advantageous as the death toll would be blamed on Democratic Governors and Mayors. That act, which should have been grounds for crimes against humanity, was accepted as reasonable behavior from today's so-called conservatives.

    But I've said many times that Trump could travel the country lobbing hand grenades into maternity wards in broad daylight and on live camera while admitting to it and promising to do it again and his supporters would stand firmly behind him while somehow blaming it on Democrats.

    Not only has this been proven over and over (R's denial of the insurrection for example) but it's festering into a new level of violence.

    And I’m sure I’ll hear something about how this isn’t about Trump. This is Trumpism. It’s It’s about his control over the Republican Party and how they have allowed this violence to fester for fear of him and/or his base. The propaganda machine and the likes of Tucker Carson et al who sell this poisonous venom do so to appease him and his base, as well as to get rich in the process.

    1. While the Left actively and increasingly deploys its' Invisible Antifa army...they whine and cower in fear of Kyle's shadow...


    2. How many nights did you riot in Portland?

      "Boo-hoo, the Proud Boys ruined ALL our fun...."

    3. “ Pushback is hell, ain't it Ron?”

      Not for me personally. I’m a white guy in a small white community and will retire rather comfortably in just a few months. I don’t fear my grandkids being shot for driving with a broken headlight or spend prison time should they get caught toking a doobie. I suppose in the big picture of life I dodged that bullet.

      If I’ve ever been in Portland it was likely switching a flight. You seem to want to input opinions of me that I do not have, or you could not know this as I’ve never said such things in public or in writing.

      You also seem to be in approval of open season on Democrats as well as an advocate of white supremacist groups such as the Proud Boys.

      I do understand the allegiance demanded from the propaganda machine so your deflection of the facts and replacing it with snark is standard procedure.

    4. Everything has its' season, Ron (Ecclesiastes 3). Even Democrats.

    5. Ronald, you make points both spot on and absurd....but rest assured, the doughy wannabees LARP'ing around with their airsoft gear, haven't been faced with actual Patriots, yet.

    6. The left is fueled by bile and rage.

    7. Ronald Ward is the Jan Brady of the thread.

      Instead of "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!" Ronald cries "Trump, Trump, Trump!"

      Please keep it up. The longer the left wallows in rage and purblind ignorance to reality, the more they lose the broad middle where the normals live.

    8. Where are normals supposed to go while Trump remains the republican party's kingmaker?

    9. A political party with a raging loudmouth in it swinging his weight around, oh my.

      We'll see how much of a kingmaker he is. Youngkin won by essentially avoiding mentioning him.

      Also, Biden isn't helping. Trump could probably beat him if the election were held today.

    10. Which is the reason SF, I added that last paragraph to my original comment. There was no doubt that you'd spin the realities of the corruptions, anti-democracy, pro-insurrection, murderous, white supremacy loving thugs the Republican Party has evolved into (or perhaps given permission to show their true colors) under the direction of Donald Trump by downplaying it because it's all due to my disdain of Donald Trump.

      And you do this while omitting my references to quotes of multiple lawmakers et al.

      Rather than respond to the fact that The Proud Boys opening stated the verdict justified ‘stacking up bodies like cord wood”, you respond as the victim being forced to endure some embarrassing sand pounding from the left over the verdict.

      The thing is, this head explosion of the left only exist in the rants and distortions from Tucker, GatewayPundent, NYP, and the other misinformation outlets who can sell their half baked tabloid horse shit to the basket of gullibles who need to "own the Dems". Granted, they can cherry-pick and find some far left lawmaker or ranting liberal and sell it as mass hysteria because they know they have the basket of gullibles eating out of their hands. Even Biden stated the need to respect the jurors decision.

      "The longer the left wallows in rage and purblind ignorance to reality, the more they lose the broad middle where the normals live" (which I assume is directed at me) is a rather tuck tail and run response considering I laid out a detailed list of factual statements from numerous people. It seems like in a place where the normal live you'd might point out precisely what was incorrect or what you disagree and why. At least a few here could at least argue that "stacking up bodies like cord wood" was fair game or, in season.

    11. @ Ron. Please send your complaints to Waukesha's "Dancing Grannies Dance Troupe".

    12. Lifted from a Washington Post today:

      "Many on the right routinely depict Democrats as America’s enemies. At one recent conference, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) said, “The left hates America,” while Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) said: “Their grand ambition is to deconstruct the United States of America.” At the same time, Republicans make a fetish of gun ownership and use; weapons of war are the hottest fashion accessory in GOP campaign ads.

      The message many Republicans receive is that violence is justified to save the United States from a leftist takeover. An audience member at a pro-Trump event spoke for many when he asked: “When do we get to use the guns?”

      An American Enterprise Institute poll found that 39 percent of Republicans believe, “if elected leaders will not protect America, the people must do it themselves, even if it requires violent actions.” Another survey by the University of Chicago found that 21 million adults believe the “use of force is justified” to restore Trump to the presidency."

      And then there was that Rep. Paul A. Gosar animated video, among many others.

      The left is not enraged over Kyle's verdict in itself. But there were warnings that an acquittal would give the Republican Party an edge to intensify their extremism of sowing division and hatred for political gain, even if it leads to mass shootings.

      Those who cocoon themselves in right wing media will dismiss that as nonsense, even should they witness it in broad daylight and hear the commands to fire from their own party leaders, just as they'd justify lobbing hand grenades into maternity so long as it "owned the Dems". That is absolutely true because we've seen this movie so many times.

    13. Darrell E. Brooks wasn't enraged? Who knew?

    14. Why does DOJ's CRG have to cover up his rage then?

    15. Wilhelm Hospel, 81, Virginia Sorenson, 79; LeAnna Owen, 71; Tamara Durand, 52 and Jane Kulich, 52.

      Say their names, Ronald.

    16. JC, I realize the rabid right is going all out to exploit the unfortunate Waukesha incident but I really don't know what precisely you're alluding to or why I should heckle a group of devastated singing senior citizens.

    17. You incited his rage, Ronald. You did that.

    18. Look Ron. You gave his violence an "official pass". Where are all your admonitions for him to "tone down the violence"?

    19. Where are all the screeches about white power signs being flashed at the end of THAT video?

    20. Joe, making a lick of sense isn’t exactly your long suit is it?

      It’s become rather commonplace of people who have fallen down the rabbit hole of disinformation to simply create their own arguments out of thin air, declare victory to their fabricated nonsense, and then blame and dismiss their opponent with contempt.

      Perhaps this is some escape mechanism for the cult who can never allow facts or what’s real to interfere with “own the Libs” mission?

    21. Being anything less than a total pompous *ss doesn't seem to be your strong suit, either, Ronald.

      The Right doesn't take self-serving criticisms from self-unaware and unwitting hypocrites. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. Get lost.

    22. What is the DOJ CRS doing in Waukesha WI if there was "no hate crime"?

      The emergency response scripts are pre-written talking points for generic use when needed. The emergency scripts are managed by officials within the Dept of Justice Community Relations Service and generally do not change over time. Those initial talking points are deployed quickly once the attack occurs. That initial emergency response took place last night and into this morning. However, now the CRS will get down to the business of granular control with people on the ground in Waukesha, Wisconsin . . .

      The CRS stands aside when national media and politicians push a false narrative that benefits their objectives. When a NASCAR garage pull down rope is falsely promoted as a noose, the CRS just watch and do not refute the claim. When Kyle Rittenhouse is wrongfully accused of being a white supremacist the CRS do not get involved, they just watch and do not refute the claim. These examples advance the objective of the cultural Marxists and are therefore not impeded.

      However, when a supported minority group attack the majority group with a motive based on race, the CRS quickly jump into action. That is the specificity of what they do, and the CRS have broad power and authority to carry out their operations because they are aligned with one side of the political continuum.

    23. How do YOU spell P-R-O-P-A-G-A-N-D-A

      What does CRS do? Well at the Ahmoud Arberey trial... Unified Command, along with the Department of Justice's Community Relations Service, opened a new community center in a local historic school building to give visiting protestors or groups a place to come to get information about things like permits.

      Nobody wants the "protestors" to get lost...

  5. NAACP President:

    "This was worse than the Emmett Till trial. This was worse [than] so many trials where we know, for a fact, individuals committed murder and yet they were not brought to justice. It is unfortunate, but this is America.”

    The left is off its hinges. This is crazy.

    1. Black Nationalist kills five and injures forty+ at Christmas parade. DOJ CRS respondes to keep the public in the dark... and pretend it wasn't a domestic terror attack...

    2. <a href='https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/11/the_waukesha_massacre_picture_begins_to_emerge.html">:{</a>

  6. The equation has gotten extremely simple. Right likes it = left hates it. Right doesn't like it = Left loves it.

    1. Kid,
      Yes, that is the equation.

      Isn't it infuriating?

    2. Well, it's extremely adolescent AOW which is no surprise. Doesn't take much to describe a lib.

  7. Ronald Ward:

    I realize you and your comrades on the left are soiling your dainties in fear that dangerous men on the right will take this verdict as open season on America-hating leftwing street rabble, but we are still a nation with a justice system and people committing violence are still locked up and tried--at least those who are not committing the violence in the name of BLM, antifa or some other Democrat Politburo approved group.

    I also find it amusing how the yapping left keeps harping on Rittenhouse having a rifle, or how he should not have been there (but, by your omission, those looting and setting fires did belong there). Your legally-irrelevant propaganda points reveal your ignorance of the law.

    Finally, it is revealing to see the left employ the "She wouldn't have been raped if she hadn't been dressed like a skank" accusation.

    Congratulations. You lefties are everything you scream and accuse others of being.

    1. SF, I’d say that this “yapping of the left” is more of a product of what Tucker, Rick Moran, and the Limbaugh wannabes are telling you you’re hearing rather than what’s actually being heard. These are the same guys, or, of the same ilk, that’s being brainwashing you into thinking the BLM movement is a terrorist group or that Antifa is a funded, organized arm of the Democratic Party- all while convincing you that white supremacy groups disrupting protestors is fake news. “Stand down but stand by” anyone?

      Do I believe Kyle’s verdict will spark mass shootings from an “open season”?Considering how numb and in denial the right has become to school shootings, I’m not sure what would possibly convince the basket of gullibles that something’s amiss. Have not you yourself downplayed the severity of almost 3/4 million dead U.S. citizens from COVID? That the Trump admin actually admitted depriving blue states of supplies was good politics drew crickets.

      As far as all the lefties questioning what might drive white American teens to pick up assault rifles and travel out of state and injecting themselves into heated protests, well, maybe because it’s a fair question. A better question might be why are those on the right staring at the sky and whistling Dixie while they’re doing it?

      I’d suggest that part of the reason is that the Republican Party, a party that didn’t even run on policies and haven’t produced a single legislation for the actual good for the average Joe in over 50 years and have robbed the working man blind, understands that there’s a very angry and divisive electorate. And they’ve found it advantageous to convince the pitch fork people that the torch people want to take away their pitch forks.

      I have no clue in regards to raping a provocatively dressed skank but I assume it must be the latest and greatest from the talking heads.

    2. The lies and bile come straight out of Joy Reid and the rest of the leftwing press. I don't need pundits to filter it for me.

      Please provide the quote where I have downplayed covid deaths or school shootings. The first are a force of nature (cases spiking in over 80% vaxxed New England) that must be put in context thanks to irresponsible and unethical people in government and in the press fanning hysteria.

      School shooting and other criminal behavior are a symptom of cultural rot and the breakdown of the family. The family is a fundamental building block of society and the primary formation of children into adults.

      Working people? The working people have spoken. They voted for Reagan, and they voted for Trump. The Democrat Party (which I and my entire family including aunts, uncles, grandparents, use to belong to) has abandoned working people, so working people have abandoned them at the voting booth.

      The Democrat Party is now the home of snotty people telling others what to do, with hangers on like you thinking you're in the club (reality check: You're not). Today's progressive class demonstrates what a dangerous mixture of ignorance and arrogance.

      The Nicholas Sandman incident should have taught you people a lesson. The Russia collusion hoax should have taught you something. This Kyle Rittenhouse case should have taught you something about how serially wrong, biased and pathetic your Infotainment Media outlets are, but you don't learn. You'll never learn.

      Today's progressives are a simmering, seething pot of anger, hatred and purblind ignorance.

    3. "Please provide the quote where I have downplayed covid deaths or school shootings."

      Uh, well, golly gee, WHAT???????

      That very statement validates my claims of denial the Dem haters have become.

      "You say masks work? It is on YOU to prove it, not on me to disprove an unsubstantiated claim."
      -------SilverfiddleNovember 9, 2021 at 8:04:00 PM CST

      And this would be besause:

      "There are respected doctors and scientists who disagree with fauchy and the other pompous government poobahs.

      If you go and do some reading, or listen to some good podcasts, you'll find out that half of public health is propaganda and herding people, and that does have its place depending on circumstances. Yes, over 600,000 people have died in the US, but if you compare this to other pandemics, the level of hysteria and the level of dictatorial government mandates are not justified
      ------------SilverfiddleNovember 9, 2021 at 2:09:00 PM CST

      You've discredited the science, science professionals, the irrelevance of over 700,000 dead (not 600 000 but if that makes you feel better, sure) etc. from the onset.
      "Working people? The working people have spoken."

      Well, yes but again you're creating your own reality because when they spoke, they ousted Trump by the tune of 7 million votes and an electoral landslide. Their voice also returned both chambers of Congress to Democrats. And by the way, if it weren't for heavy gerrymandering, the Plutocratic Party would have not seen power in the House for the last decade. And with what's going on in Plutocratic states, they don't seem to care what voters have to say.

    4. Let's take a look at the last 4 years of Trump and the GOP helping working families:

      Secretary of Labor- Eugene Scalia, a man with a history of helping business clients screw over employees, weakening OSHA rules, and union busting.

      Deputy Sec of Labor- Patrick Pizzella, a former employee of the National Right to Work Committee and has lobbied against raising sweatshop-level wages in American owned companies in U.S. owned territories, many paying less than $1 an hour.

      Former Sec of Labor from 2017-2019-Rene Alexander Acosta with a history of anti-worker protections and adamantly against unions and minimum wage. Also approved a plea deal that allowed Jeffrey Epstein to plead guilty.

      Assistant Secretary of the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA), David Zatezalo, a former CEO of a coal mining operation with serious mining violations.

      And now Trump’s Dept of Labor hired 2 union busters to oversee unions. 2-5-2020

      National Labor Relations Board appointees:

      1) Marvin Kaplan, whose sole experience with labor law is drafting legislation to weaken worker protections and holding hearings to criticize the NLRB.

      2) John Ring, a partner at anti-union law firm Morgan-Dale Lewis

      3) William Emanuel, a partner at union-busting law firm Littler Mendelson.

      Trump twice nominated Thomas Farr for a lifetime judicial seat, a lawyer who defended employers and corporations charged with employment discrimination, has fought efforts to create safe working conditions for employees, opposed by the AFL-CIO, who's 1st job out of law school was working at an anti-union organization, the so-called National Right to Work Foundation, has continued to defend employers against discrimination claims and worker safety claims ever since, authored a brief asking the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn a NC Supreme Court decision that invalidated a state workers’ compensation law that would not permit workers who developed chronic lung disease due to asbestos exposure from obtaining a remedy, and defended a company that refused to allow a union to take temperature readings in the workplace where glass-making workers were exposed to extreme heat conditions.

      After promising the working class to rid Washington of corporate lobbyist, let’s look at who he has installed:

      Trump chose an oil lobbyist to run the Dept of Interior, a coal lobbyist as head of the EPA, a pharmaceutical lobbyist as head of the Health and Human Services, a Raytheon lobbyist for acting Secretary of Defense, a billionaire charter school heiress to run the Dept of Education, and a banking executive for Secretary of the Treasury.

    5. Studying the scientific literature and listening to various experts and calling bullshit on useless bullshit like wearing mask outdoors is not discounting the covid deaths.

  8. So, let’s take a look at the results:
    1. Weakening workplace safety protections for offshore drilling workers on 12/29/2017
    2. Signing a tax bill into law that tilts the tax system further against workers 12/22/17
    3. Limiting workers’ ability to decide with whom they want to form a union 12/15/17
    4. Making it harder for workers to bargain over their working conditions 12/14/17.
    5. Proposing to make it easier for employers to pocket their employees’ tips 12/05/17
    6. Threatening working families’ access to health care 10/12/17
    7. Denying overtime to millions of working people by derailing the Obama-era protection to extend overtime protections to 4.2 million Americans’ 6/30/17
    8. Disbanding labor-management forums for federal workers 9/29/17
    9. Delaying and weakening mine inspection rule
    10. Endangering the retirement investments of working families by signing a EO on February 3, 2017
    11. Halting EEOC equal pay data collection 8/29/17
    12. Signed into law a to block customers from filing class action lawsuits against banks 11/02/17
    13. Rolling back gainful employment protection. June 2017
    14. Shutting down retirement savings plans on 7/31/17 by ending the MYRA savings program.
    15. Exposing workers to toxic materials on 6/23/17 rolling back safety rules protecting workers from beryllium, a toxic metal that causes lung cancer and other deadly diseases.
    16. Endangering workers and first responders at chemical facilities on 6/12/17 by ordering the EPA to roll back demands critical updates to its Risk Management Program (RMP).
    17. Undermining the quality and pay of apprenticeship programs on June 2017.
    18. Switching sides in Supreme Court case limiting workers’ right to sue. June 2017
    19. Proposing a budget that would slash funding for job training. May 2017
    20. Cut important programs for coal miners and their communities
    despite his promise to support coal communities.
    21. Attempting to make it harder for people with disabilities to work, again going against his campaign promises.
    22. Rolled back rules on wage theft in June 2017.
    23 Rolled back rules of. exposing farmworkers to toxic pesticides in Jan 2017, again lying about his campaign promises.
    24. Making it harder for workers to save for retirement in May 2017 by signing legislation to repeal Obama-era guidance that helped cities and states set up retirement savings plans for workers who didn’t have access to employer-provided plans. .
    25. Weakened protections for construction workers in April 2017.
    26. Signing Exec Order in April 2017 letting lawbreakers off the hook for safety violations
    27. More weakened laws exposing farmworkers to toxic pesticides 3/29/2017
    28. Has awarded $billions in federal contracts to employers who have violated wage laws.
    29. His March 2019 threatens workers by slashing funding for programs that protect workers’ rights and access to services.
    30. Weakened payday lender rules in order to screw the poor 2/6/2019
    31.Allowed employers to classify workers as contractors in order to end benefits and overtime 1/25/19
    32.Again going after employee’s tips on 2/15/19
    33. Exempted seasonal workers from federal wage hikes on 9/25/18.
    34. Proposed regulations to weaken radiation protection of workers on April 2018
    35. Making it easier to buy out employee pensions in March 2019
    36. Relaxing OSHA’s injury and illness reporting standards on 1/25/19
    37. Proposed rolling back child labor laws on 9/27/18
    38. Preventing home care workers from organizing on 7/12/18
    39. Attacking federal workers unions in May 2018
    40. Again, weaken workplace safety for offshore drilling workers on 9/28/18
    41. Promised to cut social security and Medicare 1/22/20
    42. Proposed budget cut of $500 billion in Medicare Feb 202043. Signed Exec Order allowing loopholes for states to kick people of Medicaid

    1. Cut and Paste leftwing propaganda.

      Every one of those talking points has a counter-point and its not worth wasting time on.

      Here's a tip for you. If you don't understand the counterpoint to propaganda points you agree with, you are nothing but an indoctrinated stooge.

    2. Actually my shoot-at-the-hip accusing friend, that's my own writing and collection. If I lifted any of it, please advise with other than your say so.

      They're not talking points but rather actual proven facts, you know, like what really happened.

      And they're not "propaganda points that I agree with" but rather actual laws, policies, endorsements, and/or Executive Orders that you dismiss by rationalizing that you spending time to disqualify them would be a "waste of time". That's a rather convenient pistil to have holstered when you come up short, ain't it now?

    3. If I lifted any of it, please advise with other than your say so.

      Please provide proof of its' originality with "other than your say so." LOL!

    4. Shirley you have "sources", after all, to validate the veracity and/or "originality" of your claims.

    5. After all, they must all be "proven" facts. And since each item is a charge of "motives/intentions"... to be proven "facts" they must be declarations from the legislators themselves.

    6. # 38 is actually the result of two Supreme Court decision blocking unions from siphoning off Medicare money paid to workers. Workers can still organize and write checks to pay their dues.

      This is why political propaganda lists like this are useless. There are two sides to every talking point.


    7. This sounds good to me! Unions may not coerce people to pay.

      "The new Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) rule forbids states from diverting Medicaid dollars meant for providers to third parties, such as other companies or organizations."

      And in the next paragraph, the solution:

      Union officials are trying to figure out another way for workers to pay dues, such as asking them to mail a monthly check.

  9. Same with the Bush years, mass tax cuts for the wealthy at the expense of the working man (and yes, the wealth gap grew bigly) while promising to gut SSI to offset. Reagan and the GOP were actually able to tax SSI and rob pensions and bust unions in order to offset that tax gift for their donors.

    Even here in KY, on day 1 of a Republican supermajority, they had an emergency Saturday session to take away prevailing wages from construction workers, actually putting many nonunion workers eligible for food stamps. all while the Koch funded KY Freedom for Prosperity sat in rotunda breakfast room cheering the return on their investment,

    I again challenge you to let us know anything of substance the corporately own Plutocrat/Social Darwinism Party has done for working families in the last 50 years.

    1. I hate to burst your bubble, Ronald, but in 2020, working class people continued their shift to the GOP. The Trump years were good to working class people of all races and they rewarded him with their votes. Unfortunately, the upscale progressive class outvoted them.

      Jacobin mag isn't too rightwing for you, is it?


    2. Not that it would burst your bubble, but it's actually 2021.

      "The Trump years were good to working class people of all races and they rewarded him with their votes."

      Okay, in a sane world you have to understand and accept certain truths. There is no actual trail of legislations or such from the Trump years to conclude he did great things for the working class people of all or any race. This may be what the serial lying con man promoted at his Klan rallies and the lapdog right wing media regurgitated but it's inconsistent with actual facts and data. In reality, Trump was merely riding on the coat tails of Obama and Dems after 7 years of rising above the 2008 crash and burn Bush/GOP ashes (which the Plutocratic Party actually admitted was due to "spending like drunken sailors" and to have "lost their way").

      As I've mentioned numerous times only for you to pound sand and ignore while chanting the nonsense instilled by your indoctrinating masters is that the BLS proves otherwise. Trump not only produced less jobs and growth in his 1st 3 years than Obama did in his last 3 years but the economy was showing cracks prior to COVID as the 2019 4th quarter manufacturing jobs were tanking and the deficit was spiraling due to his tax scam.

      How you deduce that losing an incumbent presidential seat as well as losing a heavily gerrymandered House and to top it off, the Senate as well, is somehow a reward from the constituents is beyond me.

      And while I've given you a lengthy detailed list of Trump and the Plutocratic Party sticking it to the working class, you've failed to come up with a single thing these corporately owned and violence promoting thugs have done to help them.

      This is the problem with the glazed over Kool-Aid gulpers. They not only cannot differentiate from what is true and not true but they don't care.

      And did you actually read the entire link you presented to somehow conclude this imaginary success for the working class you claim? Public opinion is driven by many factors and doesn't necessarily prove Trump and/or the Plutocrats delivered anything they promised. If you want some other analysis pertaining dark money, gerrymandering, disinformation, and so on, I can provide them as well.

      After all, Trump ended up 2nd worst president in U.S. history with the only score saving him from worst was due to the high scoring in his ability of persuasion.

    3. Millions of working class people who have abandoned the Democrat party disagree, but you know more about it than them, don't you?

    4. You make a valid point that a huge portion of working class people shifted in 2016. Out of desperation, hey fell for the Trump lies. As my factual list above prove, Trump and his goons, as republicans have for years, screwed their eyes out.

      Do many working people still believe Trump is on their side even though they've been had in real time right before their eyes? Sure, just as there are those who believe he didn't bribe a foreign government or believe his BIG LIE or that Jan 6 was a usual tourist day (while at the same time, believe it was Antifa AND believe it was the FBI And believe the mob was patriotic heroes) just as they'd still support him if he shot someone dead on 5th Ave just as they'd defend him if he machine gunned down a bus load of kindergarteners in broad daylight.

      This is why it's "Trump Trump Trump", because you have a blind cult loyal to him and an obedient GOP afraid of the cult.

      Perhaps millions of working class people did abandon Democrats. The 2020 election says not enough. Nor in Congress.

      I gave a list of Trump's attacks on workers. Let's see what's Biden done.

      This is why this has to be all about "Trump Trump Trump", because you have a blind cult loyal to him and an obedient Plutocrat Party afraid of the cult.

      Perhaps millions of working class people did abandon Democrats but from proof of the 2020 election, not enough millions. Nor in Congress.

      I gave a list of how the plutocrats assaulted the working class so let's take a look at how Biden has helped them.

      Fired Peter Robb – Trump’s union buster General Counsel for the NLRB and appointed Peter Ohr who has a long list of pro-worker decisions. He quickly overturned many of Robb's anti-worker orders.

      Appointed Marty Walsh, a union leader, in charge of the Department of Labor.

      New Deputy Secretary of Labor

      Fired 10 of Trump's anti-union picks for the Federal Service Impasses Panel (FSIP), which decides contract disputes between federal unions and the government.

      Repealed union-busting executive orders – The executive orders, signed by Trump in 2018, kicked unions out of their offices in federal buildings, limited union release time, and instituted one-sided contracts on a number of agencies.

      Strengthened ‘Buy American’ provisions.

      Signed an EO of a $15 minimum wage for all federal contractors.

      Allowed federal unions to “bargain over permissible, non-mandatory subjects of bargaining when contracts are up for negotiation,”.

      Order that the government stop contracting with private prisons, a for-profit venture that reduces wages and takes jobs from union corrections officers.

      Reinstated federal diversity and inclusion training.

      Signed order allowing workers to refuse dangerous work, issuing a guidance clarifying that workers have a federally guaranteed right to refuse employment that puts their health in danger and still qualify for unemployment insurance.

      Announced his support for the PRO Act by adding penalties for companies that retaliate against workers who organize and grant workers collective-bargaining rights they don’t currently have.

      There's an old joke that a union worker voting for a republican is like a chicken voting for Cornel Sanders and another one of how an axe convinced the forest to vote for it because it's handle being made of wood meant it was one of them.

      So yes, the lies, disinformation, race bating, cultural wars, dark money, intentionally depriving blue states so the deaths can be blamed on Democrats, destroying democracy, and on and on has been advantageous for the plutocrats.

      I'd say the plutocrat party and their dark money owners are fully aware this glimmer is short lived, That's why they're in a rush to upend out voting process for their advantage.

      I know you can't see that because your team is obviously infallible to you along with your obvious hatred of their opposition party. So by all means, let the "alternative facts" fly'

    5. The gaslight's sure getting thick in here...

    6. btw - pro "union" is hardly synonymous with pro "worker". For unions are but worker's "trusts" and it is more than the corporate/ government "trusts" which much be fought and "busted" to make conditions more amenable to the average "worker".

    7. Joe, I get the arguments for and against Unions. While the so-called conservative party have been adamantly anti-union for years, they've become increasingly anti-worker as well.

      While one might argue the anti-union actions as justifiable, it's hard to justify the multiple anti-worker initiatives listed above, as well as the countless I haven't listed.

      The GOP's attacks go further than merely the workplace. For example, Trump signed an EO that if a financial institution INTENTIONALLY mislead a client, they could not be sued. Trump signed into law a bipartisan bill (Pence was needed to break the tie) prohibiting class action lawsuits against banks-meaning, servicemen and customers could no longer band together to hire a law firm in the event Wells Fargo decided to steal their life's savings. Now if your a victim who happens to have several million under your mattress, you may find a lawyer to take your case.

      How is that beneficial, or representative for the average working grunt? What's the logic? Where's the good?

      I could feel pages of examples. This is who Republican lawmakers have evolved into since Reagan.

      Silverfiddle can say "meh, waste of time to respond, Libs just bad so there" and you can talk "gaslight". But take a look in the street and the revolt of workers which has been brewing for years.

      Again, name 1 piece of legislation from the GOP in the last 50 years to actually benefit Bob the mechanic or a stay at home mom.

      Or, continue with "meh" and "gaslighting".

    8. Imagine organizations so wonderful for workers, that workers must be forced to join them and their dues forcibly deducted from their paychecks.

      I think the concept of a union is a great thing, but in practice in this country, they are mainly a rent-seeking grift for the union leadership and non-laboring staff.

      Imagine if a union actual arose that collectively bargain health insurance for its members the way corporations do for employees.

    9. IMO, the greatest threat to American workers was the offshoring of American jobs from the 80's onward by global corporatists. Trump did several things during his four years in office pursuing the seemingly futile attempt to bring those jobs BACK to America, including offering tax incentives to corporations for re-patrioting hundreds of billions of offshored profits, and offering incentives to build new or replacement facilities in the USA, as well as imposing tariffs on cheap Chinese manufactured goods to encourage domestic competetiveness. You give Trump no credit for these worker friendly acts on any of your "lists". Why is that? Could it be that your "case" isn't interested in a balanced reporting of truth, but only in attempting to score politically partisan points?

      The mere volume of gasses in your toxic list isn't going to overwhelm anyone here.

      Instead of offering a shotgun argument pick a single point to debate. Let's not count futile coup.

      Perhaps you can tell us SPECIFICALLY what Trump was trying to achieve in imposing steel tariffs on China that was anti-American-worker?

    10. A union with some imaginative and industrious leadership that gained discounts for members, eye care, discounted dental, maybe set some licensing standards that demonstrated value to employers...

      A union like that could be a powerful force for good.

    11. ...at least until organized crime stepped in to raid their pension fund...

    12. ps - You say above that Trump left no trail of pro-worker legislation. You're right. But Trump wasn't elected to legislate... was he?

    13. Joe C., Trump's tariffs were a double edged sword. It was a good thing for the aluminum industry but also hurt some of our more concession proof industries. Harley Davidson anyone? And the other side of that coin is that much of those taxes ended up being at the expense of the consumer. Remember when Trump told us that 24% tax on Canadian softwood wouldn't hit homebuilders? It's like Mexico paying for a wall.

      I do recall Trump wanting tax incentives and promising to bring 10 million jobs back here- in August of 2020. Trump took credit for doing a great deal of thing he wasn't doing, even lying that he did them when he did not.

      "...at least until organized crime stepped in to raid their pension fund..."
      ---Joe ConservativeNovember 27, 2021 at 11:10:00 AM CST

      Would this organized crime be Ronald Reagan and his goons who robbed pensions through deregulations in the 80s?

      Oh, Biden and Democrats restored a large portion of that in the last COVID package.

      And I do agree that my "mere volume of gasses in my toxic list isn't going to overwhelm anyone here" anymore than if Trump had ordered an air strike on every Democratic and black district in America, admitted to it, and promised to do it again.

      Silverfiddle, kinda threadjacking there a bit ain't ya?

      You can't defend the deliberant anti-worker attacks from the Mango God and Company, you disregard them allowing the banks to fleece the peons, you ignore the argument that Mango and Co. attacks have targeted both union and nonunion including axing prevailing wages, and you fail to name a single legislation or policy intended to improve the average wage earner.

      So you want to talk how if wishes were horses in world that rained lollypops and cupcakes, how unions bullied themselves in and why they're not living up to your standards.

      Well, I guess it's your show.

    14. Oh My! Trumps tariff's might have hurt Harley Davidson...

      Harley-Davidson manufactures its motorcycles at factories in York, Pennsylvania; Milwaukee, Wisconsin; Manaus, Brazil; Bawal, India; and Pluak Daeng, Thailand.[

      ...well, at least half their factories.

    15. Harley-Davidson (NYSE:HOG) announced its new Rewire strategic plan in April 2020, as the COVID-19 pandemic worsened a business already hit by tariffs and slumping sales. The maker of the iconic brand reported motorcycle segment revenue down 8% in 2019, and shipments down 6.4% versus the prior year.

      Today, the company said it was overhauling its global business model to become more nimble and focused. CEO Jochen Zeitz said, "We've taken a hard look at our entire setup, our spending, and how work is getting done, to align our operating model, structure, and processes." The streamlined business will result in $42 million in restructuring costs in the current second quarter and 700 total layoffs, most of which will occur in 2020, the company said.

    16. much of those taxes ended up being at the expense of the consumer.

      That's the point....weaning the American economy off cheap Chinese junk.

    17. As for the Canadian tax... “It has been a bad week for US- Canada trade relations, said US Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross in a statement. “Last Monday, it became apparent that Canada intends to effectively cut off the last dairy products being exported from the United States. Today, in a different matter, the Department of Commerce determined a need to impose countervailing duties of roughly one billion dollars on Canadian softwood lumber exports to us.”

      This, he said, “is not our idea of a properly functioning free trade agreement.”

      Didn't we get a new NAFTA replacement out of that?

    18. I avoid nothing. Your propaganda talking points beg us to not believe our lying eyes.

      Working people voted Trump in 2016 and voted for him in greater numbers in 2020. That is the reality, and it is not your friend, and it is not the Democrats friend.

      Based on your cock-eyed view, working should be voting en mass for Democrats.

      All you have left to explain this is that the voters are stupid.

    19. You don't have to be stupid to vote against your own interests.

  10. Replies
    1. Will lifting them result in the Biden Build Back Better infrastructure spending being a boon for Chinese steel plants or American ones?

      Enquiring minds wish to know.

    2. Joe, you seem to have this binary perception that I place Biden on some pedestal or would wheel in some Mexican made gold idol of him and bow down to it.

      Biden was not my preferred nominee (albeit, I would have voted Hermit the Frog, Bozo The Clown, or Peewee Herman over the rabidly racist, serial lying, vagina grabbing, life long silver spooned con man that the basket of gullibles genuflect to in reverence).

      There are many aspects of the Build Back Better plan that don't appeal to me but didn't you yourself say that the President isn't there to legislate? ? ? ?

    3. @Ron,

      You seem to think that we all worship Trump in the very same way. This simply proves just how little you've paid attention.

    4. ...although I'll confess, he did exceed my original expectations. :)

    5. I've yet to hear the first admonishment of any of his deeds, as heinous as some of them were.

      "You seem to think that we all worship Trump in the very same way."
      ---Joe ConservativeNovember 27, 2021 at 4:57:00 PM CST

      It's irrelevant to me how many different ways you all worship Trump.

    6. We don't need your misheard quiproquo's, Ron. The "very same way" was a reference to your Biden/ "golden idols" comment... a comparison that you don't cotton to much, either.

      The phrase qui pro quo, or quiproquo (from medieval Latin: literally qui instead of quo), is common in languages such as Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and French, where it means a misunderstanding.

      ...and so where are all your Biden Admin admonitions? I made a very big criticism of Reagan, above.

    7. What disappointed me most with the Trump Administration was that he didn't do enough to limit and curtail the global corporate form of capitalism or the 'B' corporation. The Cultural Capitalism prevalent since '68 is killing this country. It's time to call some corporate CEO's to account for not fulfilling their fiduciary responsibilities v. 'profits' to shareholders and make examples of them.

    8. I would have also liked to see him dismantle the Deep State and eliminate at least 80% of the federal workforce.

    9. Joe,
      If Trump had been re-elected, do you think he'd have gone after the global corporate or the elimination of most of the federal workforce? I have my doubts -- particularly with regard to the latter.

    10. He was far from my "perfect" choice for president.

    11. "I would have also liked to see him dismantle the Deep State and eliminate at least 80% of the federal workforce."
      ---Joe ConservativeNovember 27, 2021 at 6:09:00 PM CST

      Unless your definition of the Deep State conspiracy theory differs from mine, that's a bit of an oxymoron isn't it?

      Contract out 80% or more of Fed workers to wealthy donors who already own a chunk of government legislators?

      Yeah, that oughta do it.

    12. ^^^ Where ignorance abounds. :^|

    13. ...and couples with malice. :p

    14. Trump, the Myth and the Man maybe two separate things. But Trumps myth is much better than anything that the Democrats have to offer.

      What does the Democrat Party offer the working class? I know what they offer the "non-white cultural identity" classes. Parity w/White workers. But white workers? I can't see a single benefit that Trump's not offering in "spades".

    15. Trump the Man is merely the 'empty signifier' that the believers in the American Myth of a post-WWII lost manufacturing utopia can tie their hopes/ dreams to.

      And as a product of steel mills, shipyards, and advanced manufacturing base can here attest, it's a pretty powerful myth and dream.

    16. Well, Warren, based on that well articulated and constructive analysis of why precisely my argument was of an abundance of ignorance, well, as the Beaver may have said, “gee with”.

    17. Or, “gee whizz” or, whatever the spell checkers dictate.

    18. I'm not interested in wrestling with a pig*, Ronald and I find no articulation or constructive analysis in your constant straw man arguments and denial of reality.
      I've witnessed Union corruption first hand, from the looting of the Teamsters pension fund to the six figured salaries of Teamster Union officials and nepotism of Union held offices on the local and national level. The Longshoreman's Union is a hotbed of corruption that no one dares touch and always has been. The National Education Association and the American Federation of Teachers are the first and second largest trade Unions in the US and speak out both sides of their collectivist mouths, discourage parent participation in their children's education and use Union dues to promote radical leftist Democrat candidates. They also make life hell for any member that doesn't toe the party line.
      And like every else you get wrong, Beaver would have said "gee wiz".
      Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

      * -classical reference-

    19. Well, for the sake of not pig wrestling, let’s say everything you say of unions is true.

      How that exonerates the last 50 years of GOP pro-wage theft agenda and initiatives of returning the rest of the middle class to sweat shops and the company store is unclear.

    20. RJW, said...
      How that exonerates the last 50 years of GOP pro-wage theft agenda and initiatives of returning the rest of the middle class to sweat shops and the company store is unclear.

      As far as I'm concerned, that's just another strawman argument. If you want to see wage theft, look at your taxes. Not just your FIT but all of them including the hidden taxes.
      Some 30 years ago, I made a vow to never work again in a Union shop. I've never regretted it.
      I see no wage theft outside the government and do-nothing Unions that take your money and give it to the politicians in the form of campaign contributions, kick backs and outright bribes, while Union officials line their own pockets. Meanwhile, Union thugs beat up anyone that dares to cross a picket line and threatens their families or even destroys or sabotages their property. I've personally seen Independent truckers have their rigs burned while Union thugs beat them because they dare cross a picket line in a non-union coal mine. It wasn't enough that the employees of the non-union mine voted down the Union, they were outraged because the mine was non-union.
      Sweat shops? maybe your definition of a sweat shop is very different than mine.
      No one is forced to work under conditions they abhor. If you believe that you're undervalued as an employee, find another job, start your own business or just work for yourself. Save your money instead of pissing it away on things you don't need. Expand your skill set and increase your knowledge base. Learn how things work instead of going through the motions on an assembly line. Make yourself a profitable and valuable employee instead of a part of the assembly line.
      Where are these "sweat shops", where are these "company stores"?
      Your fevered dreams have nothing to do with reality. Sure there are corrupt Republicans but the Democrat party is institutionally corrupt and has been ever since its founding.
      The Democrat part has a history of racial politics going back to its founding and the Indian Removal Act. It takes whichever side of the argument that it believes will keep it in power and seeks complete power over good governance.
      You just be you and keep believing the nonsense you spew and if you're lucky, you won't live long enough to see your big daddy, -the Unions and Government- be shown up for the straw man and bully he really is -in even your eyes-.

    21. Aside from the Democrat party this and union thugs that and union bribery and Democrat party’s racist history and your disdain of unions and hatred of democrats, I was mainly referring to both the huge wealth gap from the last 50 years and the mass employment exits we’re seeing in real time today.

      And I was also referring to how Trump and his plutocrat party elevated this initiative to new levels by installing anti-worker foxes to guard the hen house. And then there’s an endless list from trying to steal a waitresses tip to ending class action suits against banks to withholding supplies from Democratic states because blaming the deaths on Democratic governors and mayors was politically advantageous. In reality, the Plutocrat party (who serve none other than their corporate owners) have caught on to the idea that the more harm they can do to their electorate, the more they can use their misinformation and propaganda machine to convince the basket of gullibles that The Democratic Party is to blame.

      The Plutocrat party have implemented their “death by a 1000 cuts” for years by stealing a bit of SSI here, weakening a few overtime mandates there, and that list too is endless but Trump gave them permission to open the floodgates.

    22. Do you have anything besides agitprop and vindictive personality disorder or is your hatred of Trump only because he's rich and you're not?
      Shouldn't your claims of the GOP as the Plutocrat Party also include the Democrat Party, as both favor the rich people and unions over the common man?
      I'd much rather have a person that acquired his wealth in the private sector instead of the system that allows politicians to accumulate wealth through donations, kick backs, insider trading and bribery.
      Both parties are guilty of raiding SS and highway taxes to pay for pet projects which are used as a form as bribery for smaller blocks of voters or simply to pay for vanity projects that will bear their names -see Robert Byrd-. Highways and trains that lead to nowhere or go to, or through, larger cities because that's where Democrats trend to live. Little consideration is given to "actual" infrastructure -if at all-.
      I'd much rather have a Plutocrat, which made himself wealthy in the private sector, run the Country than a professional politician that seeks to line the pockets of himself, his relatives and friends, at the expense of the public coffers.
      Money is power and vice versa. Professional politicians live by that motto.
      I worked for 9 years for a man very similar to Trump. He and I came to an understanding very quickly. I would do what he told me -as long as it wasn't illegal or immoral- because he was the boss. And I would do my job to the best of my ability. In one year I made over $10k in bonuses in a three month period because I streamlined the production processes and increased the bottom line of the company. -$10k was a lot of money in the early 1980s-. He even praised me in front of the whole company and said that I was the whole reason the company had large bonuses. The windfall profits even enabled the company to expand modestly and buy machinery to increase productivity with less tedious and hard work for the employees. The agreement between us was that he could be a perfect free-wheeling SOB -and if it was bad enough-, I would find a new job. I respected him for his business acumen and he respected me for the job I did as an employee.
      Twice, he gave me a large some of money out of his own pocket because of my wife's medical bills. Not for altruistic reasons but because it was effecting my job performance.
      After he retired, his private secretary, told me that I was the only employee that he respected as an individual.
      None of that would have happened in a Union shop. Unions protect drunks, drug addicts and loafers, and give short shrift to productive employees. Meanwhile, The Democrats have opened the floodgates to illegal aliens that take your place on the production line if they don't simply go on Welfare and become a tax burden.

    23. Unions, politicians and law firms that specialize in class action lawsuits, are simply rent seekers trying to insert themselves between you and your rightful due.
      Once I was the beneficiary of a class action suit. I received two postage stamps, in the mail, as my settlement while the law firm received several million dollars as its own share.

    24. I caught on to the fact you weren’t a union guy right off the bat.

      I’m not sure what to make of your comparison of your former boss to Trump as it takes more than rough edges and being stern or ruthless or demanding to draw that conclusion. Trump is a lifelong grifter, a con man, an egomaniac with no interests of anyone other than himself, be it with intentionally murdering blue state constituents for political gain, illegally funneling $1.5 trillion of COVID stimulus to his top donors, bribing a foreign ally, or torching our democracy with his big lie of a rigged election. The guy should be either behind bars or swinging from a rope.

      And I’ll agree neither party is without sin but this little gem speaks volumes.

      “Meanwhile, The Democrats have opened the floodgates to illegal aliens that take your place on the production line if they don't simply go on Welfare and become a tax burden.”

      That’s a rather nonsensical statement as both parties have allowed this long before Reagan. Aside from the fact that illegal immigrants are ineligible for government assistance, they’ve been an attraction to the motel and meat packing industries for years. Many come over on a visa to pick fruit and just never went back.

      This “Dems are for open boarders” came about from the right wing propaganda machine once Trump started telling the basket of gullibles they were coming to sell drugs to your kids, rape your wife, steal your job, and then shoot you (as opposed to maybe finding a better quality of life or sending money back homes to their families). Once the gullibles were riled and cheering a Mexico paid for nonsensical wall, Hannity, Tucker, AmericanNonthinker, and the like started feeding them the open boarder memes. Until that time, much of the boarder crossing had been a bipartisan issue.

    25. I actually agree with part of your class action argument, that most of it ends up in the lawyer’s pocket.

      However, now it ends up in the banker’s pocket. No repercussions, no penalty, and an incentive to do it again.

      It was simply a license to steal handed to Wall Street, along with an Executive Order vindicating them of intentionally misleading their clients.

      There’s really no logical way to sugarcoat these attacks on the American workers.

    26. I caught on to the fact you weren’t a union guy right off the bat.
      Why? Because I won't work for a legalized Mafia operation?

      I'm afraid you will have to look a little bit deeper into the reasons that the bankers ended up as the top income companies in the US.Essentially, the banks borrow money at lower interest rates than they charge then sell the loans to the Treasury. The banks have simply become rent seekers too. But it's more complicated than that and it can't continue indefinitely. It's just one of the causes of inflation because the Treasury Is printing large amounts of money to cover its debts/loans. Essentially, only government can cause inflation by printing money -or its electronic equivalent-. When Government expenditures exceed its revenue, the value of the dollar is decreased in actual value and becomes a hidden tax because the Treasury just prints more and our dollars are worth less so unbacked dollars cover the shortfall. It can end in HYPERINFLATION and bankrupts all of us but the hyper-wealthy.
      Where did this come from?
      Executive Order vindicating them of intentionally misleading their clients.

    27. Cut and pasted for simplicity:
      The fiduciary duty required an individual in a position of trust to be truthful, adhere to a duty of loyalty, and act in the client's best interests. A fiduciary must put a customer's needs ahead of the fiduciary's personal financial interests.

      In February of 2017, Trump signed an EO to remove that rule.

      It’s fleecing the flock. And the complications of banking and Wall Street have nothing to do with it.

    28. There was much more to Obamas fiduciary rule than stated and the the president’s team also believes the rule was unnecessarily restricted investor choice without providing consumer protection. In other words, they were afraid that Obamas rule might lead to prosecution or civil suits of financial officers that might give advice that wasn't sound by arbitrary federal standards -or lack of discernible standards-. Beside that, the rule was held up in court and either dropped or re-written and it seems to be indeterminate that it was ever implemented. If it was, you can blame Biden for not re-sending it.

    29. Warren, your civil tone and researched arguments are refreshing. I thank you for that.

      What the President's team said they believed and/or didn't believe fails the test of reasonable intellect under the premise of "Trump said". The guy lies like most people breathe.

      And federal students were just a tip of the iceberg here as the order affected Americans investments of $7 trillion in 401ks and pushing $8 trillion in IRAs.

      And if his order couldn't stand the scrutiny of the courts, what does that speak of it or precisely what were his intentions?

      Seems to me, the Wall Street elites have the reasonable recourses to defend themselves. Those American workers with the tune of $15 trillion they're trusting them with?

      Who's side was Trump really on? The dead guy he shot dead on 5th Avenue?

    30. And how has this played out?
      Your reply was opinion and supposition without any real world examples of how 401K or IRA holders were actually affected.

      "And if his order couldn't stand the scrutiny of the courts, what does that speak of it or precisely what were his intentions?

      Many things don't stand the scrutiny of the courts -wrongly or rightly-. In a sane world, any EO should be able to be removed or altered by the next President without going thru the "scrutiny of the courts" after all, it hasn't went through the law making process. Since Congress didn't make it a law, getting rid of it isn't a constitutional issue or a matter for the courts.

      "Seems to me, the Wall Street elites have the reasonable recourses to defend themselves. Those American workers with the tune of $15 trillion they're trusting them with?

      If they can't be trusted, then don't trust them and make your own investments. After all, 401Ks are just a vehicle for companies to have a cheaper option than a traditional retirement plan.
      There are DOWNSIDES to 401ks. including hidden investment fees, administrative fees and service fees.

      "...The dead guy he shot dead on 5th Avenue?"

      What was that guys name anyway?
      He was probably right. I don't believe he could have been charged as long as he held the Office of President. Of course, charges could be pressed after he left or was removed from office.

      It's so much better to listen to the lies of President Biden and the DNC, including the made of whole cloth, Trump Dossier which was bought and paid for by the DNC and Hillary Clinton. I read it to my dogs every night and they roll their eyes at the same time as they roll on the floor laughing. It never gets old!

    31. Those 401K & IRA numbers came from The Investment Company Institute.

      Trump's infamous 5th Ave statement had nothing to do with Executive privileges or prosecution. He meant that he could do literally anything and regardless of how illegal, evil or heinous, his supporters would stand firmly with him.

      This was proven multiple times throughout his shit show of a presidency, from the numerous examples I've given on this thread to the thugs and criminals he peppered his staff and cabinet with (which was more of a swinging door to prison) to his pardoning of thugs and criminals to his assaults on workers to his attempts to make the banking industry unaccountable with our savings.

      The 5th Ave story zeros in on what I meant with his assaults on unions. It isn't about how you or I feel about unions but rather that Trump campaigned as being on their side only to turn around and stabbed them in the back. Yet, phenomenally, there are life long strong union members waving his China made Trump 2024 flag in their yards.

      If Trump had ordered an air strike on Saint Jude Children's Hospital, it would have went like this:

      Trump- Supporter: Fake news Trump didn't do it.

      Trump- I did it

      Supporter- well, he didn't mean to, Dems sabotaged it.

      Trump- No, I meant to do it

      Supporter- well, killing children really isn't all that bad

      We've seen to many different versions of this movie.

    32. Politics is a great deal like NASCAR.

      During the 90s, I had a business selling, repairing, and training of automotive diagnostic equipment. I serviced multiple automotive dealerships.

      Because auto racing is a big part of the automotive industry world and was often discussed, I didn't miss a race.

      In that day, NASCAR was strictly Ford and Chevy. I have never been adamantly Ford or Chevy so the outcome was no big deal to me. What amazed me was that from listening to the Ford guys and then the Chevy guys, it was like they had watched 2 totally different races. They saw 2 totally different things.

      I recall thinking that this 1 guy must be making it up but I knew he wasn't. Reality suggested he was lying yet I knew better. He was talking stupid but I knew he was far from stupid.

      And I just quit watching college basketball all together when I had a son attending the University of Louisville and a daughter attending University of Kentucky at the same time.

    33. "Those 401K & IRA numbers came from The Investment Company Institute."

      It doesn't matter. I'm not disputing the dollar amount of investment. I'm disputing the actual effect of the EO.

      I'm not going to try to explain to you what Trump did with respects to China. There is a lot more involved than Union crybabies or hyperbolic claims he stabbed them in the back.

      The rest of your post is pure hyperbole.

      What Trump said was similar to me telling one of my co-workers that if I had sex with his girl friend, she wold throw rocks at him.
      Does that mean I'm going to have sex with his girl friend? No! She's a pig. ;^)

      Ronald, your obsession with Trump isn't healthy. In your mind you have blown him up to some kind of inhuman monster and he's not! Does he guard his speech, no he doesn't.

      What should concern you more is Joe Biden's panicked withdrawal from Afghanistan. In my view, he's directly responsible for the needless deaths of 13 American Servicemen. At the very least, he should be tried for negligent homicide. I could bring up his constant looking at his watch while their bodies were offloaded from the plane at Dover AFB his disrespect for the deceased Service members and their families.
      I could go on and on about his infirmity and his constant lies but I'm not going to waste my time.

    34. "Ronald, your obsession with Trump isn't healthy. In your mind you have blown him up to some kind of inhuman monster and he's not! Does he guard his speech, no he doesn't."

      I've never questioned if he was human and his bloviating insults to the English language has no relevance to the ungodly pro-resurrection, vagina grabbing, Hitler loving racist, con man that he is.

      Biden was never my preference and I was against the Afghanistan pull out as well (although you seem to forget that there was no good ending and that Trump dumped it in his lap).

      Your admonishment of Biden's "constant lies" in light of the last 4 years of Trump taking mendacity to an unheard of level is rather remarkable. And his mental state is something promoted by right wing media and the Q-nuts. There has never been anything other than, you know, "lies" to substantiate that promotion.

      I think we've beaten this horse to a pulp and if you feel my disdain for the murderous and rabidly racist grifter is unhealthy, that's you prerogative. But I suggest you consider if your acceptance of it might be as well.

  11. ...but at least he knew what it meant to 'own' a corporation instead of being a surplus salaried employee CEO.

    1. People who 'own' things behave differently and have better values than those who merely 'rent' things. Their vision is 'long term' and they have less 'quarterly profit' myopia.

    2. The 'Roma' have stormed and taken Congress.

    3. ...and soon we will all live like them.


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