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Monday, January 24, 2022

Save Ukraine?

I hear the drums of war beating.

Washington politicians and news media on both sides of the aisle are urging the United States to protect Ukraine from Putin, and politicians and news media on both sides of the aisle are urging the United States to use restraint of varying degrees, even to the point of "Stay the hell out — no matter what Putin does!"

One web essay on the topic and worth reading (dated January 21, 2022): 5 things to know about why Russia might invade Ukraine – and why the US is involved

What is your view on this Russia-Ukraine matter?

130 comments:

  1. 1. Biden needs to stop threatening further sanctions and go ahead and do it. Sanction the holy shit out of Russia until Russia comes to its senses and renames itself America's Bitch.

    2. Russia needs to be removed from the United Nations Security Council. This is non-negotiable.

    3. Russia wants to be the same country as Ukraine. We can do this. Russia simply needs to cede control of all of its territory to the government in Kiev. This is also non-negotiable.

    If Russia is unwilling to satisfy these three conditions, nuke them off the face of the Earth. No more bullshit.

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    1. That is the best solution that would be wonderful if it could happen, but it won't.

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  2. It may just be that Biden and the dems would go to war there just to keep his and skippy's (hunter) checks coming in. Countries have gone to war for less.

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  3. I fully support Ukrainian sovereignty and wish them the best.

    But no American life should be sacrificed for that cause [unless some want to volunteer and head over to Kiev].

    The only diplomatic solution that may avert war, is still an affront to Ukrainian sovereignty.....a land bridge across Zaporizhzhya to Crimea, and an agreement to codify the "Donetsk People's Republic" in the east.

    Of course in this, Russia gives up nothing.

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    1. ++

      Beware people beating war drums who have never been to war

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    2. Silverfiddle, no disrespect intended but please read my response to AOW's post below. I totally disagree with you both.

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    3. As if people who go to war have to whittle their own rifles out of bars of soap. It's an all volunteer military, not the world's largest welfare program to pay for college. The possibility of being sent to war and even dying is baked into the deal.

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    4. For the defense of the nation and her interests sure. We have no national interest in Ukraine.

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    5. So our efforts at making Ukraine a stable democracy and trade partner are expendable? We may have to fight to stop the Russians from overrunning Eastern Europe again so oh noes let's be safe at home and play baseball?

      Hitler gave Russia 14 years notice that he was coming for Ukraine. Putin has given the world 7 years notice that he wants Eastern Europe.

      I'll take peace in our time for $50, Neville.

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    6. You're arguing a sunk cost fallacy. I ain't got no money in Bitcoin, and I sure as hell ain't got no money in Ukraine.

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    7. How many opportunities to check Russian expansionism need to be squandered?

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    8. Ask Brandon:

      “We have no intention of putting American forces or NATO forces in Ukraine. But we — I said there are going to be serious economic consequences if he moves,” Biden said Tuesday during a stop in Washington, D.C., warning that the effects of a Russian invasion would stretch worldwide."

      https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/biden-says-us-will-not-deploy-combat-troops-to-ukraine

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  4. A glance at Russia's top trading partners, and what they deliver, reveals why Vlad is laughing at Biden's sanctions threats.

    https://www.worldstopexports.com/russias-top-import-partners/

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  5. I see that Mustang has an excellent post on this topic:

    Another Crimean War?

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  6. Replies
    1. Biden's not exactly showing resolve...

      From the Link:

      “The U.S. State Department has ordered the evacuation of American citizens in Ukraine amid the threat of Russian military action.

      “U.S. citizens in Ukraine should be aware that Russian military action anywhere in Ukraine would severely impact the U.S. Embassy’s ability to provide consular services, including assistance to U.S. citizens in departing Ukraine,” the State Department said in a travel advisory.

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  7. I know that most do not agree with me, but I am so happy for my father's sake, even though he has passed, to see the US stepping up and in, even if it means war to go against Russia. My father was in was in the subcamp of Flossenburg, at Ansbach during WW11. He and his family suffered immensely. He would be happy were he alive to see the US step up because they saved him and liberated him from that camp, and he was forever indebted to the Americans. He was the most patriotic man I ever knew. He signed up in the Army during the Korean War. He would be very angry if he were alive and the US did not send in troops. He knows what those Russians are capable of he hated Stalin more than Hitler. He was rich and lost it all at age 14, he was scarred in some ways for life that none of us could even imagine. So, for me debating this is mute. America must fight with the Ukraine. I realize I will take guff for my views, but I honestly do not care. I take it for my father, in honor of him.

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    1. Elizabeth,
      Thank you for stating your views.

      In my view, if we are going to get involved in Ukraine, we must have two important things:

      1) a stated and measurable goal
      2) an exit strategy.

      Do you agree or disagree on those two goals.

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    2. Similar story with my grandparents, born in Ukraine (Grandma) and Poland (Grandpa), ended up at 'Gastarbeiter' in Germany, never saw their families or homelands again. Children (including my mom) born as war refugees. Both became proud Americans with a profound hatred of Russia.

      None of that justifies us getting involved in one more war our tinhorn generals have no idea of how to win.

      We have no compelling national interest in Ukraine and there is no threat to our national security that emanates from there.

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    3. I definitely agree with you. I also am concerned about Biden pulling out our troops as he did in Afghanistan or worse, cutting a deal with Putin.

      But the fear of above stated does not outweigh the need to help Ukraine. If we lose Ukraine, we lose all the Baltic States sooner or later and that is the real tragedy.

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    4. Sorry Silverfiddle, all that does justify us getting involved. People had your attitude during WW11 before we were forced to get involved due to Pearl Harbor. Do you believe that was a waste? No because we were attacked. Do you think Russia would not attack us? I believe so. Biden is a paper tiger, and we must stand up to them. Those people and Ukraine need help and we should help. Who else will? WW11 could have had a better outcome if we were involved prior to Pearl Harbor. American thinks too much about itself and not those less fortunate. It is no longer the most benevolent nation in the world. We need to change that.

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    5. @SF - ....there is no threat to our national security that emanates from there.'

      And that is the most fundamental criteria to address when weighing war...especially what would likely become a world war.

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    6. @CI ....that is the same mindset people in the US had before getting involved in WW11. So deadly wrong.

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    7. I'm open to hearing the specific national security threat [not theoretical 3rd and 4th order possibilities], that comes from a Russian incursion into Ukraine [which will be somewhat limited in nature].

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    8. Half the world in immiserated in poverty, hunger and tyranny. I would love to help them all. We have no historical ties to Ukraine as we did to Europe in WWI and WWII. Same goes for Belarus, another nation we tried to cozy up to when the wall fell, despite having no business doing so.

      Poland, Hungary and the Baltics are a different case. They are traditionally western-facing European states.

      The great early tragedy of WWII was our refusal to accept Jewish refugees, a people with nowhere to go.

      The situation today between Russia and Ukraine has few parallels to WWII.

      The history of Russia and Ukraine is long and contentious. This is just the latest flareup.

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    9. @ Elizabeth,
      Many of us are Veterans and remember how we were left hanging in the wind during and after the ends of these melodramatic conflicts. We wouldn't be in this position if we had strong leadership.
      Russia isn't going to attack us to start a war but they will push us to see how politically weak we are. So far, all we had done is delivered weak threats of sanctions without actually putting any into effect.
      The way I see it is that the Russian mob is in a territorial fight with the Ukrainian mob, similar to inner Mafia Family wars over who owns the drug and prostitution ring territories.
      Maybe we should get the DOJ and FBI involved. Lord knows they aren't doing their jobs here!

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    10. China will invade Taiwan the minute US boots hit the ground in Ukraine.

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    11. Anyone want to start playing "Duck & Cover" in the Elementary Schools AGAIN?

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    12. The Soviet Union dissolved in 1989 and is gone. Russia is not the Soviet Union. It was the Soviet Union and a Communist government that did the things to your father which you now hold against Russia, which is neither Communist or an empire.

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    13. I disagree, Jayhawk. Putin's aspirations in Ukraine are purely "imperial".

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    14. @Warren I realize many of you are Vietnam Vets. I have nothing but the utmost respect for vets of Vietnam, Korea, WW11 et al.
      I also understand that if you fought in war you look at this understandably from a vantage point most of us do not have. However, many of my views are not based on our government or other nations, nor previously wars fought. My father was a Korean War Vet but as you may have read my comment above, he suffered through WW11. He taught me much about integrity, loyalty, and doing what is right. For me this war is about what is wrong. It is wrong for any nation to encroach upon a democratic nation, demand that the world not allow them into NATO and so forth. I believe this is the time for Russia to be put in her place and we nuke the Kremlin and put an end to their tyranny.

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    15. I have to admit being fascinated at supporting the risk of ending life as we know it....over Ukraine.

      I'd rather save that for instances where we were attacked. but YMMV.

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    16. CI life is already worse as far as life as we know it and its one word....BIDEN! ugh... :(

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    17. It's not nuclear winter worse....or EMP worse....or Americans in body bags worse.....but as I said, YMMV.

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    18. Iraq and Afghanistan vet here. I saw up close and on the ground how we were tactically brilliant but strategically stupid. That falls squarely on flag officers and civilian "leadership."

      I trust the Joes all the way -- I wouldn't trust the Pentagon "leadership" to organize a 4th of July picnic in its current state.

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    19. These people put dill and sour cream on beef, mushrooms, and egg noodles and call it a meal. It took them over 70 years to figure out what Hayek did on a napkin, that the economic calculation paradox keeps communism from being functional. They suck at the maths. They build oversized nuclear weapons that more than likely will be shot down or destroyed in their bases at the push of a button. They rely upon a strategic communications beacon system that can be spoofed by any third grader with a shortwave ham radio. Every time the US has fought the equipment they can field we left piles of scrap that used to be tanks behind on a highway of death. In Iraq we took out their most advanced Russian made GPS scrambling systems with GPS guided bombs.

      Screw Russia. Bitch slap the dog shit out of them. Give the Ukrainians the means to do so and they'll do it for themselves and us.

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    20. No, the Russians aren't the mighty Soviet Union. They're a wimpy, pathetic shell of their former selves.

      The only reason they haven't invaded the Ukraine in full is they fear an American ass whoopin.

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    21. There's two other Russian "ghost broadcast" channels. If all three stop broadcasting, a computer will launch all of Russia's nukes, a "dead hand" switch. Very spoofable. We could hijack the frequencies, nuke Russia off the face of the Earth, and live happily ever after.

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    22. FJ,
      tactically brilliant but strategically stupid

      I think that I was trying to say something like that when I opined that there should be two things in military strategy: a measurable goal and an exit strategy.

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    23. Thought Criminal, Warlord of Couchistan!

      We do agree Russia is a decrepit, corrupt, drunken shadow of its former self. This is an internal family squabble that goes back a thousand years.

      If you want to get your ass over there and volunteer to kill Rooskies, God bless ya, but this ain't our fight.

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    24. @ Elizabeth,
      I took no offense. Your opinions as valid as mine.

      I only speak from my own perspective and I know a lot of Veterans share that view.
      I am not a pacifist, not by any means.

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    25. So, fight Russia when they're back in control of Eastern Europe. Should we partition Germany too?

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    26. When they start moving armor towards the Polish border, let us know.

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    27. The US Republican Party will need to congratulate Putin on conquering Ukraine first.

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  8. From Bunkie..not Mustang... There are always reasons to want to "take" from others if need be. Every war has a reason or two. Mutually assured destruction was the reason given for the lack thereof for a major world war of late. The generation that saw a couple of the "big ones" land in Japan is about gone. Miscalculation is the worry in this one and the terror of it apparently has lost its zip.
    Biden is playing with the big boys in this one. Add to it he is a senile old man with the likes of Susan Rice, Samantha Power and Jarrett who brought us the Arab Spring sitting behind the curtain.
    Biden needs a war to distract...and his buddies need to plunder our treasury of our loot in the name of a war.
    I would say it has little to do with Ukraine at the moment.

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    1. Bunkerville,
      I agree with most of what you said.

      Biden is out of his league on the matter of foreign policy -- and much else.

      I believe that Putin has looked Biden over and sees weakness -- and senility.

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  9. I'm not familiar with the historical details, but I do have Ukranian friends so my reaction to this is mostly personal. Seems like Putin is punishing Ukraine for aspiring to orient itself politically towards Europe and away from Russia following the breakup of the USSR. I feel like Europe, having encouraged Ukraine to some extent, has some moral obligation to protect it. Don't know how much that obligation extends to America, except to demonstrate loyalty to Europe. There may be reasons of self-interest to keep Putin contained.

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    1. ..but there was no moral obligation to keep the Taliban contained....

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    2. The US and western nations have been careless in their relations with the nations in Russia's near abroad.

      George Bush the Dumber overpromised our new friend the Republic of Georgia, and Vlad ended up invading and taking a big bite while we did nothing.

      Our foreign policy establishment is criminally incompetent. I look upon them with contempt and recall the old baseball coach Casey Stengel quote addressed to his incompetent team:

      "Can't anybody here play this game?"

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    3. Lovely. You want to risk nuclear war because you have personal friends in Ukraine. That is awesome.

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    4. @Bunkerville Yep! GW was mesmerized with Putin, called him a "good man." Putin was GWs muse. Disgusting

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    5. So no confusion I am referring to President George W. Bush not George Washington, somehow the comments got confusing to me. Sorry.

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    6. Elizabeth,
      I recall GWB's saying something about how he looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul. To be precise (emphasis mine):

      "I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country."

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    7. @FJ: I suppose there wasn't, until we rolled in at which point we took ownership of the problem.

      @SF: we should learn from our recent mistakes, but I don't think the lesson should be "do not interfere, ever." Especially from Europe's point of view this is not a remote conflict, these are our neighbours.

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    8. Jez, We (the US) have demonstrated that all we do is wreck things when we get involved.

      Nobody in government here is even providing a cogent message of what is going on, what we are doing, what are the objectives, etc.

      The American people's level of trust in government is running on empty, and now that includes trust in the military. We are at Vietnam era levels now.

      There is no support for going to war in Ukraine outside some dimwitted propagandized Democrat voters, loudmouth chestbeaters (who are not, were not, and never will be in the US military), summer soldiers and fox news armchair generals.

      Democrats started saucing up this Russia/Putin hysteria sometime after Hillary stole that hotel jacuzzi switch, turned it into a US - Russia "Reset" button and then failed horribly at actually resetting relations with Russia.

      We ended up with a majority of Democrats believing Vlad actually changed votes to get Trump elected, all in the bald-face truth revealed that the "Russian Dossier" (which constituted foreign election interference by a British pokenose) was complete bullshit funded by Hillary Clinton Democrats and injected into our federal intel and law enforcement bloodstream.

      This is all bullshit, and its all about tens of billions in investments in Ukraine.

      If Europe is really afraid of freezing if the pipes get shut off, or Russia pouring in over the Fulda Gap, then lets see someone explain it, and more importantly lets see the EU nations mobilize their forces in something that at least resembles a five alarm all hands on deck.

      This ain't my first rodeo.

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    9. I'm not agitating for American participation, but I can see a moral case for European involvement. How much we can realistically accomplish is a sobering question.

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    10. Jez, Agreed. A question that must be answered by Europeans.

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    11. .....or Russia pouring in over the Fulda Gap....

      Props on the Cold Warrior reference. It's been many moons since I thought of that little slice of Germany!

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    12. CI, yeah... but since Russian tanks no longer sit on the eastern side of the gap, its now a rhetorical reference.

      You must have done some time at Schweinfurt?

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    13. Bamburg, and a stint on the Czech border [from CP Pittman]. But Fulda was always ground zero when talking about the great red horde coming over.

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    14. Are we just going to ignore the definitively pro-Russian changes to the Republican Party platform in 2016?

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  10. @ Warren

    The way I see it is that the Russian mob is in a territorial fight with the Ukrainian mob, similar to inner Mafia Family wars over who owns the drug and prostitution ring territories.

    Yours is a clear vision, Warren, exacerbated by the fact that the American president and his son have financial ties to Ukraine. Once again, American voters have excelled in their choice for national leadership. Now, if only Pelosi will sober up .... should be all good.

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    1. @Mustang I agree to certain point but then I dissent. I hope you read my comment above to Warren. You know I have nothing but respect for all Vets and the fact we may disagree on certain issues in no way is meant as disrespect to any vet. That would be preposterous! I just see this a different way and much of why is wrapped up in what my father and my aunt who was involved in world politics, Croatia namely, and the influence they had on me from a young age.

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    2. @ Layla

      You wrote, and I agree, that “ ... it is wrong for any nation to encroach upon a democratic nation, demand that the world not allow them into NATO and so forth.” Where I disagree, though, is when you wrote, “I believe it is time for Russia to be put in her place and we nuke the Kremlin and put an end to their tyranny.”

      There is, as you’ve suggested earlier in your reference to World War II, no greater suffering in war than that imposed upon innocent people who have nothing to do with foreign policy. I can’t imagine causing millions of innocent Russians to suffer the effects of nuclear warfare because we want to teach their leader a lesson. But such behavior would very quickly become far more than that. Russia would respond in kind, so we’d have to add a few more million casualties to the conflict — those who live in Chicago, for example ... and half the eastern seaboard of the United States. I don’t think any rational person wants to see annihilation of the innocents.

      What has to happen is for Russia and Ukraine to work out their problems without bloodshed. No one has a greater stake in this than the Ukrainians. More than the U.S. or NATO, the Ukrainians should be looking for solutions that both they and the Russians can live with. We know what Russia is willing to do; but what is Ukraine willing to do?

      But globally, the greatest threat to U.S. interests is that our world competitors (Russia, China, Iran, North Korea) see the U.S. government under Biden as weak ... and they will take advantage of that. Think: Arab Spring. No, not fair, but that’s how the world works. I wonder why the U.S. State Department isn’t trying to broker peace between Russia and Ukraine long before it threatens Russia with sanctions and warning Americans to leave Ukraine.

      But as I say in my Bunkerville discussion, Putin’s reaction to NATO’s incursions is little different or far removed from Kennedy’s reaction to Russia’s placement of ICBMs in Cuba. NATO should have anticipated this reaction from Putin ... and if they did, then what were NATO leaders thinking in terms of where the issue would end up? If NATO imagined that Putin would “roll over,” they’re incompetent. If they imagined that war might be “okay,” then they’re idiots.

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    3. @Mustang I should have been clear.

      “I believe it is time for Russia to be put in her place and we nuke the Kremlin and put an end to their tyranny.” (Elizabeth)

      I did not mean that literally I was venting. I would never be serious about such a thing and never thought you or anyone else would see that comment as anything other than venting my frustrations. I should not have written that. My apologies to you all.

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    4. @Mustang I apologize to AOW for this off topic, but I know some like and don't like polls. I am running a poll on my site regarding this issue for anyone interested to take the poll and discuss. Not click baiting but just hoping to widen the discussion since we all posted on the very same topic? :)

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    5. Sigh... should be a period, not question.

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    6. Elizabeth,
      I did not mean that literally I was venting. I would never be serious about such a thing and never thought you or anyone else would see that comment as anything other than venting my frustrations. I should not have written that. My apologies to you all.

      I understand. I, too, am beyond frustrated with what's playing out in front of us -- the helpless WE THE PEOPLE.

      And thank you for clarifying, my friend.

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    7. Thanks, AOW. So happy you understand. It is truly frustrating for as you put it, WE THE PEOPLE.

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    8. @ Mustang,
      " Ukrainians should be looking for solutions that both they and the Russians can live with. We know what Russia is willing to do; but what is Ukraine willing to do?"

      That's a very good question as perhaps 50% of Ukrainians are ethnically Russian.

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    9. Mustang and Warren: " Ukrainians should be looking for solutions that both they and the Russians can live with."

      That is the only viable solution, given their close proximity and long and tangled history.

      A good example of this is the Iraqi Kurds and Turkey.

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  11. I am fascinated by the relentless protrayal of Putin as a bloodthirsty empire builder who wants to devour the world. He has not actually ever occupied any nation.

    He went into two small nations which had been invaded by Georgia, threw the Georgian invading army out, and then returned his troops to Russia. His troops never entered the nation of Georgia, and yet we claim he "invaded Georgia."

    He assisted Syria at the formal request of the properly elected government of that nation, while we have troops in Syria and Iraq and have refused to comply with both country's demands that we leave.

    He sent troops to Kazakstan to suppress a rebellion, in accordance with a treaty between those two nations, and withdrew all of his troops once the task was accomplished.

    When Ukraine's government was overthrown from within, the people of Crimea did not want to live under the auspices of the resulting Ukranian government and applied for permission to rejoin the Russian Federation. We claim Putin invaded and occupied Crimea.

    We are putting a flood of weapons and military "advisors" into Ukraine and, when Putin moves troops to bases 200 miles away we accuse him of moving troops to the border. We have military people actually INSIDE Ukraine along with massive amounts of weaponry.

    There is the relentless to portray today's Russia an a continuation of the Soviet Union and to treat Russia as if Stalin was still alive and running the place. The USSR and Stalin are dead, and Russia is a democracy. And before you begin decrying Russia as only a a fake democracy, note that Putin has an 80% approval rating, while very few of our presidents can reach even 60%.

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    1. Democrats have been whipping up a Russia - Putin hysteria for years and The Establishment is on board.

      I don't know what's behind it. Most likely, money.

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    2. He has not actually ever occupied any nation.

      The Crimea?

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    3. "before you begin decrying Russia as only a a fake democracy, note that Putin has an 80% approval rating, while very few of our presidents can reach even 60%."

      Ecstatic approval ratings and landslide votes are not useful warning signs that this is not a true democracy. It's not difficult to rehearse Russia's propaganda. It sure looks like Russia occupied crimea to me.

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    4. No where in the US Constitution is Russia granted the right to exist. It's bad enough they teach their children Russian instead of a language that a respectable culture can be built upon.

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    5. There were Russian troops in Crimea before the Ukranian government was overthrown. They were there pursuant to a treaty with Ukraine regarding a Russian seaport in Sevastapol, similar to many overseas naval bases established by the United States. A very normal establishment.

      When the Ukranian government was overthrown, the people of Crimea did not want to live under the new government that was established. There was a vote of the people who lived in Crimea and it was overwhelmingly in favor of seeking to seek admission to the Russian Federation. This was similar to the process by which Alaska and Hawaii became states. There was no Russian invasion involved.

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    6. Hey that's cool. Let's put thousands of troops in Crimea, point guns at their heads and see if they'll vote to join the US.

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    7. clarification: "Ecstatic approval ratings and landslide votes are useful warning signs that this is not a true democracy."

      (removed a stray negative)

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  12. Russia is on the verge of invading Ukraine, and trapping Americans in the middle of the conflict when it happens.

    Even Biden is admitting Americans could be in jeopardy and that they are considering ways to evacuate them.....
    So hold on tight, it’s going to be a very BUMPY road ahead.

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  13. I guess as it relates to Ukraine, I'm willing to support whomever our president is if he or she decides we need to defend them and, and this is huge, convinces America that this is in our national interest and not doing so would represent a clear and present danger to the US.

    I'm tired of endless conflicts, muddy objectives and no end game for our soldiers.

    Convince us, or let's stay home.

    And then if we go, the front line people repelling the "invasion" or "incursion" need to be Europeans. If their governments won't risk their own lives, why should America?

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    1. Did you put your money where your Mouth is when it came to Enlisting when we were INVADED ON 9-11? As so many of other Americans did?
      Or do you only say that when a Nincompoop like Biden is in office!

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    2. @Louise - Dave had an entirely reasonable perspective. What exactly gave you such offense?

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    3. Dave, Rock solid. I'm with you 100%.

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    4. After the fear that a Russian invasion of Ukraine is imminent, and the Drums of War are beating louder, the U.S. State Department ordered all nonessential personnel at its embassy in Kyiv to evacuate immediately and recommended that all U.S. citizens leave the country.
      We wouldn’t want another Afghanistan would we?

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    5. As for Afghanistan, I don't know where our resident military came down, but here's where I was...

      We needed to do something in Afghanistan. The American ppl demanded it after we were directly attacked. I supported military action in Afghanistan. And the world was largely with us. I largely supported our actions in that country.

      However, we squandered that goodwill with our foray, which I argued against, into Iraq.

      I felt we could respond to Afghanistan, do what we needed, and come home. Sadly, our political leaders at the time felt differently.

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    6. I felt we could respond to Afghanistan, do what we needed, and come home.

      Yep. 100%.

      Instead, the lure of playing Sim City with a loose confederation of clans....was just too much for the armchair strategists.

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    7. Dave,
      Full agreement again.
      Thank you for the "resident military" comment, but every US citizen has a say in what our nation does overseas, even though I do love roasting those lusting for military action who have no skin in the game.

      CI, Love the "Sim City" metaphor.

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    8. Dave, I don't believe in conferring special status on someone and putting a halo over their beliefs or comments because he or she is a rape victim/disabled vet/person of color, etc.

      I do believe smart people should give such people a sincere listen when they are speaking of a personal experience that relates to the topic at hand.

      When you speak about Mexico, I listen. You have immediate, on the ground experience there that the press could never pick up on.

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  14. I see most commentators here are assuming this 'crisis' is not being driven by the collapse of the COVID narrative causing a shortage of fear among We The People. Have any of you seen the testimony of the doctors before the congress today?
    Without a new emergency this administration must collapse.

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  15. The United States invades other countries because it is in our national interest to do so. We have that right. Why does Russia not have that right?

    But, you say, it is not legitimately in Russia's national interest to invade Ukraine. Why do we have the right to determine what is or is not in Russia's national interest?

    The nations we invade are many thousands of miles from our borders. Ukraine borders on Russia. Why is it okay for us to invade countries thousands of miles away to "defend ourselves" and not okay for Russia to invade a nation next door?

    We seem to be very eager to become outraged when another nation does what we do ourselves.

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    1. "We have that right."
      In general, you do not. Nobody can stop us doing whatever we can get away with, but we don't necessarily have the right to do any of it. Britain used to have an Empire, which worked very nicely thankyou to our national interest, but few would argue that we had any right to invade all those other countries. What about Ukraine's national interest?
      You misunderstood me above. My position is that I can see the argument for Europe to defend Ukraine, since we played a large part in encouraging her to Westernise, but I don't know why or if America should do so.

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    2. Actually, jez, I agree with you from a moral standpoint. I was merely parroting the position taken by the nation and those who defend that position. They assert that the US has that right while Russia does not, but offer no reason why this should be the case.

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    3. Jayhawk... the actions you cite about our "right" to invade seems in recent times to flow from what became known as the Bush Doctrine of our right to invade as a deterrence.

      I frequently asked ppl back then if that was a universal "right" of countries and most responses I got were along the lines of YES, if you are strong enough, or the US, because we are the best or most moral country in the world.

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    4. I suspected that was the point you were making, and I salute it.

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  16. Russia needs no excuse to act imbecilic. It's what they do. Overdosing on dill and vodka will do that to malnourished, low testosterone people.

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  17. Russia needs no excuse to act imbecilic. It's what they do. Overdosing on dill and vodka will do that to malnourished, low testosterone people.

    Now that is cutting it to the chase, but true!

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  18. We have no national interest in Ukraine. I'll paraphrase USMC Gen Smedley Butler: If the power elites and global corps want to protect their investments in Ukraine, let them raise their own damn army.

    Anyway, our pampered Pentagon princes have demonstrated over and over they don't know how to win a war.

    If we had to fight another war, step one would be firing everybody with more than two stars.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm no Constitutional scholar...but I wonder if there is anything stopping us from raising our own Vagner Group?

      Otherwise, Letters of Marque and Reprisal are thought-provoking...but probably not the direction we want to go with regard to Russia.

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    2. This is an internal family squabble we need to stay out of. I'm all for defending allies in the area (Poland, Baltics, etc) but I doubt they are threatened by actual military or proxy forces at this point. Russia seems to prefer indirect non-attributable actions like cyber attacks.

      btw, I don't know if you enjoy history, but I just got done Reading Holger Hoock's "Scars of Independence." He focuses in on the violence surrounding the US Revolutionary war, investigations of atrocities, propaganda, etc. Occupying forces, rebel insurgents... It elicits reflection upon some of our more recent military actions.

      Excellent book. He is a great storyteller. I always intellectually understood the purpose of a bayonet, but his description of a bayonet-only surprise attack on sleeping soldiers was chilling.

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    3. I'm thinking people like Thought Criminal, MSNBC Democrats, Fox News Armchair generals and other with outraged blood in their eyes could form Lincoln Brigades of volunteers to go over there and fight the Rooskies, like Americans did in the 30's to fight the fascists in the Spanish Civil War.

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    4. Oh, I agree....was really just sort of thinking out loud, based on the volunteer comment. We do have a rather long history of Americans volunteering to fight in foreign wars under another banner...though in most cases, a dim view was cast by our government.

      I enjoy the hell out of history - I was lucky enough [as an NCO] to attain the US Army's Military History Instructor certification...and I'll definitely check out the book. Thanks!

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    5. Seriously, if the US and Europe are any good at covert ops, I would hope they would be quietly sapping the Russian effort.

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    6. I'd say rest assured that we and a small handful of European partners are very adept at those sorts of operations....but I don't know if they're ongoing.

      Unfortunately, Russia has the edge in Information Operations and other asymmetric tactics.

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    7. I wouldn't credit Russia too much... their strategy (sowing chaos) is intrinsically easier to achieve than building stable nation states.
      The best covert ops I'm aware of are carried out by the North Koreans, which given that I'm aware of them means that even they are far from the best.

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    8. @Jez - It is easy to sow chaos.....it's much harder to control that chaos. Uncontrolled chaos can quite often be counter-productive to one's aims.

      Just based on my experience, I still give the edge to Russia on that.

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    9. Russia acts as if we won't weld them to the earth with nuclear fire. That should change.

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    10. Well.....we won't. Primarily because the same will befall us.

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    11. Then we should kick our nukes across the floor and put our hands up. I know, per the last election, that at least 74 million Americans want to do precisely that.

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    12. The fact remains....we launch = they launch. There's really no getting around that.

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    13. Sure....that leaves their subs and mobile launchers.

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    14. The point is, why are we afraid of their nukes when they aren't afraid of ours?

      Is it because 74 million people went to the polls to put Vladimir Putin in charge of America's foreign policy and demonstrated solidarity with insurrectionists in the Capitol when they lost?

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    15. They are afraid of yours. Their fear of America's nukes is what stops them from launching their nukes aggressively. It's symetrical.
      This is how mutually assured distruction is supposed to work, right?

      Delete
  19. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    1. @ Phantom,
      Your off topic comments will be deleted.

      Delete
  20. Does the USA really need to be involved in this?

    "Unlike the US, UK, Poland and other allies, the German government has declined to export their arms despite the escalating tensions as part of a longstanding policy to send arms to tense regions.

    Germany is also heavily dependent on Russia for its supply of gas, with up to 40 per cent of the EU nation's gas imports coming via Russian pipelines."
    ....

    "Germany's refusal to issue permits for German-origin weapons to be exported to Kiev has meant it is blocking NATO ally Estonia from giving military support to Ukraine.....

    "Poland has long urged Germany to take a tougher stance towards Russia, particularly as regards the Nord Stream 2 Baltic Sea gas pipeline from Russia to Germany.

    Some central and eastern European countries think the pipeline will give Russian President Vladimir Putin a lever to exert undue influence on western and central Europe."
    ....

    But German Chancellor Olaf Scholz rejected the idea of supplying even defensive weapons to Kiev - citing a long-standing German policy.

    Germany justifies its stance towards Russia by arguing it owes an historical debt to Moscow due to atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis against the Soviets during the Second World War.
    ....

    Does that debt also include the Russian occupation of E. Germany for over 40 years?

    t comes as Ukraine's SBU security service said today a 'criminal' group was preparing a 'series of armed attacks' on city infrastructure 'coordinated by Russian special service'.

    Two men, one of them a Russian citizen, were arrested during raids in Kharkiv, close to the Russian border, and Zhytomyr, in western Ukraine, today.

    Agents say the pair had been recruiting other men - mostly Russians with criminal histories - under the guise of a security company to take part in the attacks.


    Much more at the link.
    It's the same link as at the beginning of my comment.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Germany and the rest of the western European nations are self-dealing double-talkers (Just like the US).

      Delete
  21. Just in case anyone suffered under the delusion that the US has Ukraine's best interests at heart...

    US warns Russian attack may be 'imminent,' Ukraine disagrees: Here's why

    Under all the alarms and hoopla, there is an agenda. If we had a real press that really dug into issues, we could read about it.

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