CAMEROTA: "What if in the middle of the night my home is broken into. Who do I call?"— Eddie Zipperer (@EddieZipperer) June 8, 2020
BENDER: "Yes, I hear that loud and clear from a lot of my neighbors. And I know — and myself, too, and I know that that comes from a place of privilege." pic.twitter.com/WhubQ9yJIf
And then there's this, a must-read because there is more information included besides what the title indicates...It’s come to this: Guilty whites, including cops, kneel, wash feet of black community leaders.
Apparently, nothing is enough now.
Isn't the idea not to have no policing, but to replace the current force with something that protects and serves people equally?
ReplyDelete...like raises for grade school teachers.
Delete...which is fine up to the moment some thug smashes your head in with a brick.
... like the current police force is fine until Officer Koon tases you and his buddies kick and strike you repeadely with their batons.
DeleteWhat would "something that protects and serves people equally" consist of, jez? Please describe it specifically, and how it woul;d differ from a police force.
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DeleteIt would be a police force. I recommend one which adheres to these principles. It would differ from the current one chiefly in its composition (to more perfectly reflect the population being policed) and by approaching the job in a much less militarized fashion.
DeleteI owe much of my current understanding and opinion on policing to an old blog post of SilverFiddle's.
Correction: that blog post was finntann's - enormous credit where it's due!
DeleteMost people just sue abusing police officers like George Floyds and win the city settlement millionaire widows lottery.
Deletebtw - who do police officers get to sue when peaceful protsters bash their heads in with bats and rocks?
Delete...Debt riden college kids, or their opioid addicted blue collar worker side-kicks. Wanna know why people sue the cities? Cuz THAT is where the money is.
DeleteJayhawk asked...what would "something that protects and serves people equally" look like. And I think it is the question. Not knowing the full answer, it might look something like this...
DeleteWhen someone calls 911 for a domestic dispute, maybe the 911 operator sends people, who may or not be armed, specifically trained in diffusing domestic violence disputes, as opposed to a beat cop.
When someone calls 911 to say there is a crazy person close by, maybe they send people specifically trained to deal with mental illness.
And so forth. Instead of seeing the current iteration of a police force as having the tools to deal with all the ills of society, perhaps we could dial back their urban warfare funds and invest in other levels of community engagement that are designed to diffuse tense and often weaponless situations.
Now, I'll readily admit those ideas may not work, but neither is sending in armed police soldiers, complete with the feeling of invincibility that comes with armor and flak jackets, to deal with what start out many times as small problems.
Our failure, or unwillingness to consider different approaches and even try to think outside of the box might be part of the problem we are facing.
And when they send the social worker, and everyone dies, do we sue the 9-1-1 operator?
DeleteIn my old town of Sunnyvale, CA, the police were also trained firemen and responded to police and fire calls. 6ou'de have 30 flavours of responders instead of one on city pYrolls 24-7. That saves money how?
DeleteI'll bet the highest paid in the bunch will be the omniscient 9-1-1 dispatchers...
DeleteWell Minus, you've perfectly illustrated the difficulty of the moment. Many ppl by their defense of the status quo are essentially arguing for no change. As if the system we have has no issues.
DeleteWe only one REAL issue. The mythology of black victimhood circa 2020.
DeleteIn Farmer's world, racism is a myth and women are never sexually harrassed. Sounds terrific, I wish I lived there too!
DeleteIt is hard for me to relate ..... growing up in the land of the deplorables with the police about 35 minutes away on a good day, it was up to ourselves to take care of business. Welcome to no 911....welcome to America. Maybe they will figure out what those of us with the low sloping foreheads had figured out long ago. Good luck America
ReplyDeleteI heard that thing about calling the police coming from a place of priviledge, too and asked a friend of mine who is a cop. He said that no, about two-thirds of the calls he goes out on are made by black people. A significant number are black women whose "baby daddys" are beating them up.
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Deleteattention bias: your cop friend is understandably unaware of all the occassions where black people should have called the police but didn't.
DeleteMy friend, actually, is black.
Delete@this one
DeleteAre your replies ever anything other than ad hominem attacks?
No, they're all ad homs as far as I can tell. Ignore it.
DeleteYour black friend still only knows what he pays attention to. He doesn't know the relative frequency of black people's decisions to call or not call any better than he knows the same for white people.
My point, jez, would be that black people also call the police for help, which rather obviates the position that calling police for help is "from a position of priviledge." The percentage is irrelevant.
DeleteJayhawk,
Delete"This One" is a drive-by troll whose "comments" are deleted as soon as a blog administrator becomes aware of those comments.
FYI: to date, "This One" is one of only two commenters whom I have banned -- and I've been blogging since 2005.
Jez!
DeleteYour black friend still only knows what he pays attention to. He doesn't know the relative frequency of black people's decisions to call or not call any better than he knows the same for white people.
That comment is not worthy of you!
Please try to get past your cognitive bias.
@jayhawk the percentage is irrelevent? No. If the claim were that it is logically impossible for a black man to call the police, then you would need only one counter example. But that is not the claim. Tendencies (percentages) are important, in the sense that they explain population-level effects. We don't ignore averages, even though individual are typically not average in one respect or another.
Delete@AoW: I'm struggling to understand how you could disagree with me, let alone disapprove as much as your tone indicates. Do you imagine that Jayhawk's black friend does know that relative frequency better for black people than he does for whites? Or that he has access to knowledge beyond the studies and observations he has attended to? Please explain.
(As I explained the other day, cognitive bias cannot generally be "got past", we can only acknowledge it).
Jez,
DeleteYou consistently refuse any evidence which contradicts your viewpoint.
In the matter at hand, you hear only the outraged voices of those accusing the police of racist deeds. What about the outraged voices of police officers who reject being lumped in with "a few bad apples"?
The police have millions of interactions with civilians. And the vast majority of those interactions are good interactions.
Also, as far as I can tell, the majority of civilians do not deny that police reforms are needed. What happened to George Floyd was wrong beyond words.
As for Jayhawk's black friend, he may well have access to knowledge beyond the studies. A possibility, IMO.
Question for you....Have you yourself had "wrong" interactions with the police? I have -- as I've indicated in at least one previous comment. Nevertheless, I do not believe that the police are out to get me. Furthermore, I believe that without the police, most civilians will not control themselves -- even unto following traffic rules.
"studies and observations" I said. If you chop my ideas up into small enough bits, sure they'll start to fall apart.
DeleteYou told me off for saying he only knows what he pays attention to. I'd like to confirm that you really think he has some other source of knowledge about the dynamics between the police and various demographics at the population level, which he accesses without paying attention (how?! subliminally? race telepathy?? I know these are ridiculous, but I presume this is based on some kind of miscommunication and I'm expressing my confusion in the hope that we can find where that miscommunication arose.)
I think I'm reasonably fastidious about admitting to my viewpoints' weaknesses and counterpoints upfront. I like to know those weaknesses! But I do reject fallacious arguments, and I won't apologise for doing that. I don't get mad with mere disagreement; I have been known to get a bit cross about unsound forms of argument.
I don't know if the "vast majority" statement is true, and I don't know how vast the majority would need to be in an acceptable force. What percentage likelihood of getting punched to the point of multiple skull fracture and brain damage would result in your reluctance to call these guys out? Not just cos your scared of getting punched that much, but because you have trouble finding confidence in the type of people who want (even rarely!) to do that to you.
I've been singled out by police, but nothing too bad ever happened. I was an unusually good boy though, and I speak well so I'm not easy to profile. We should be wary of extrapolating from any one person's experience (including George Floyd's), but especially not from mine!
Jez,
DeleteQuick response here. I have to rush off to a doctor's appointment.
I'd like to confirm that you really think he has some other source of knowledge about the dynamics between the police and various demographics at the population level, which he accesses without paying attention
Probably through discussions with the civilian black community and the police black community
And one more thing....
DeleteWhat percentage likelihood of getting punched to the point of multiple skull fracture and brain damage would result in your reluctance to call these guys out?
Call them out! Most definitely -- and prosecute them to the full extent of the law if it is determined that unwarranted force was used.
Quite possibly through relevant discussions (which entail paying attention). Also, "prosecute them to the full extent of the law" -- police accountability is one of the main objectives of BLM's activism, isn't it?
DeleteJez, we seem to be having two separate conversations here. I am refuting that "calling the police for help comes from a position of priviledge by saying that a policeman tells me that he also goes on calls made by black people. You claim that makes no difference unless black people make the same number of calls as "priviledged white people," but that is stretching the point beyond reason.
DeleteThe quote was not, "that comes MOSTLY from a position of priviledge." Nor was it, "that comes more from a position of priviledge than from non-priviledge." If the person had said either of those two things then your point would have some validity, but since that person said what they said, the fact that police protect any black people renders the statement ridiculous, and anyone wh tries to defend it is going to make himself look like a fool.
AOW mentioned a few bad apples. Some would say a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. And currently, I've seen darn few conservatives saying the looting is the result of just a few bad apples. And yet, comparing the number of peaceful protestors to the looters would show just that.
DeleteWouldn't consistency argue for that interpretation of events?
"You claim that makes no difference unless black people make the same number of calls"
Deleteno I don't, I claim that black people are in general more reluctant to call the police than white people, ie most black people would wait for their situation to become more urgent than most white people would. I admit this is a much looser interpretation than yours ("no black people ever call the police" is IMO excessively literal), but even so that difference is profound enough to make an impact: you put up with more shit and/or you're more open to "alternatives" to protect yourself and your property.
ReplyDeleteDefund the police is the dumbest, most insane thing that I’ve heard yet.
Why not Defund the Sanctuary Cities, or the Corporations that go overseas to Manufacture the products that they sell to us!
What is next BLM in the Disney Movies?
This is madness. I support the police.
No more NFL games for me.... No more Netflix either
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ReplyDeleteKeith Ellison, the Democratic Minnesota Attorney General deliberately over-charged the police officers involved in the George Floyd case with murder instead of manslaughter because he's not interested in justice, he's interested in making sure that Democrats like himself have "issues to run on". Once the jury FAILS to convict the police officers of the "deliberate intent" required for a murder conviction (whereas manslaughter charges wouldn't need the State to prove intent) there'll be riots and protests and screams that "the system is racist". Ellison and the Democrats don't want "justice". They want "issues" like "racism".
ReplyDelete...and THAT is the REAL reason everyone thinks that the American justice "system" is broken. Democrats can ONLY profit so long as the justice system (et al) REMAINS broken. So they break it.
DeleteThey did the same thing to the police officers involved in Freddie Gray's death
DeleteThe officer driving the van was charged with second-degree "depraved-heart" murder for his indifference to the considerable risk that Gray might be killed, and others were charged with crimes ranging from manslaughter to illegal arrest.[11]
The feds will then order a civil rights investigation, and Minneapolis will be forced to operate it's police department under a federal consent decree that allows DOJ to rewrite Minneapolis' PD policies and takes all the Democrats from the Mayor to City Council off the hook for crime problems and increased murder rates all round.
DeleteAll because local prosecutors over-charge the police officers.
DeleteAttorney General Keith Ellison’s office on Wednesday upgraded charges against the former Minneapolis police officer who knelt on George Floyd’s neck and charged the other three officers at the scene with aiding and abetting murder.
Delete...and if the locals refuse to over-charge, State Democrats will ensure that the job of ensuring an unjust outcome gets done!
Delete...and should, on the off hand the jury CONVICT the police officers, Keith Ellison will likely be the NEXT Democratic Presidential candidate in 2024. It's WIN-WIN for Democrats.
DeleteNo wonder black voters are so frustrated and quick to riot. Their leaders screw them EVERY time... and still they don't catch on to the game.
DeleteWell, -FJ, the jury WILL convict the police officers. How can they not, when an acquittal, or even a hung jury, would result in riots which would make this month look like a frat party. It will be like what used to occur in the Soviet Union - a "show trial" where the outcome is scripted in advance.
DeleteThat's what this nation has descended to, a nation which conducts "show trials."
Or not, since the previous president ordered an American citizen to be summarily executed by Hellfire missile without even a pretense of trial.
FJ,
DeleteKeith Ellison will likely be the NEXT Democratic Presidential candidate in 2024.
A nightmare scenario for America!
Jayhawk,
DeleteI strongly agree with your comment of 4:34 PM:
the jury WILL convict the police officers. How can they not, when an acquittal, or even a hung jury, would result in riots which would make this month look like a frat party.
Now, in my view, the officers should be convicted. You disagree, I think, but thus is my position on the death of George Floyd -- i.e., murder, which at some point in those 8 minutes and 43 seconds became first degree murder.
My two cents.
I must also add this...
DeleteThe officers are the scene of the death of George Floyd will not be able to get a fair trial. Already, many are referring to "the murder of George Floyd."
Addendum: the same (no fair trial possible) was true for Bruno Hauptmann. The converse -- that is, no conviction possible -- was true for Lizzie Borden.
DeleteWhy insist on a so-called "Fair Trial," when Floyd's MURDERER was caught on VIDEOTAPE actually COMMITTING THE CRIME IN RAL TIME?
DeleteIN A CASE WHERE THE PERPETRATOR OF A VIOENT, SADISTIC, BRUTAL MURDER IS CAUGHT ON TAPE, I'D BE MUCH IN FAVOR OF SAVING THE TAXPAYERS A LOT OF MOOLA AND HAVING A GOOD, OLD-FASHIONED LYNCHING ON THE SPOT.
THERE COULDN'T POSSIBLY ANY "EXTENUATING OR MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES IN A CASE LIKE THAT, SO WHY WASTE EVERYONE'S TIME JUST TO GO THROUGH THE MOTIONS? THAT ROTTEN, SADSTIC, BASTARD "CHAUVIN' RICHLY DESERVES TO ... D_I_E.
I'm ALL FOR BANISHING a professional Police force. Policing is the duty of CITIZEN VOLUNTEERS, who love DUTY as well as ALL Humanity...
Deletebtw - My nickname is "Jury Nullification"...
Delete...and if THAT doesn't work, "Overturned on Appeal"!
DeleteThe cop, Franco, was caught with his knee on Floyd's neck. Literally hundreds of people have been subjected to that same procedure and have not died, so that is not proof that the cop's action was the direct cause of Floyd's death. Perhaps it was, perhaps not.
ReplyDeleteI will not argue with you, AOW, as to whether or not the cop should be convicted. My point is he WILL BE convicted regardless of facts. He will be convicted because the jury will not dare to do otherwise; will be forced by public opinion to convict regardless of facts.
Legalistic thinking, and hair-splitting technicl argumentation too often work to defeat JUSTICE.
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ReplyDeleteWorth considering...
ReplyDelete‘Stop Treating Us like Animals:’ NY Police Union Head Slams Media, Lawmakers over Criticisms.
Excerpt:
he head of New York State’s police unions slammed criticism of officers following George Floyd demonstrations, saying police were being treated like “animals.”
“I am not Derek Chauvin; they are not him,” Mike O’Meara, president of the New York Association of Police Benevolent Associations, told reporters on Tuesday while gesturing to officers gathered behind him. “He killed someone. We didn’t.”
“The legislators, the press, everybody’s trying to shame us into being embarrassed about our profession,” O’Meara said. “Stop treating us like animals and thugs, and start treating us with some respect….We’ve been left out of the conversation, we’ve been vilified — it’s disgusting.”
Read the rest at the above link.
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ReplyDeleteI think I'll be proud of my white privilege today. It's a 12 step program. I did not kneel today.
ReplyDeleteAnybody wanna guess when we're going to hear about the occupation, by Antifa, of the Seattle Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ)?
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ReplyDeleteMy favorite joke is the Left saying we need therapists stepping in...next time a woman's being pounded on by her husband, have her call a therapist ("OH! We didn't know he had a gun, we just figured he was mad!" says 911 after she's dead...you should have told us).and see how fast she becomes a BIG fan of the police. Or maybe her therapist doesn't know CPR and her baby's choking.
ReplyDeleteFor the record:
ReplyDeleteGeorge Floyd Resisting Arrest For 3 Minutes. Footage the MSM won’t show you Update.