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Saturday, December 3, 2016

Recommended Reading

See these two links: (1) Sarah Palin Says Trump's Carrier Deal Could Be 'Crony Capitalism' and (2) China lodges complaint over Trump-Taiwan call. Blunders — or brilliant moves?


  1. Whatever it was count me in. Shake up the old status quo.

  2. The real terms of the Carrier deal aren't known but there is certainly more to it than a few million dollars in tax breaks. It probably includes the threat of lost government contracts.
    Now that would make some sense as policy but as a one off it is more for show than anything else.
    The Rexnord plant nearby with about 300 workers is still moving and Trump is unlikely to demonstrate a clear policy.

    Grade -- Incomplete

    The call from Taiwan is a pretty good indication that he has no idea what he's doing and needs a course in protocol quickly. Major gaffe from someone quite capable of being a complete idiot. Serious gaffe.

    Grade --- C-

    1. LOL!

      Your comment is-"from someone quite capable of being a complete idiot".

      You might want to lay off the Ingmar Bergman movies a while.

    2. Actually I was watching Dreyer last night.
      Serious investigation of the idea of faith. You'd probably enjoy "Ordet".

      Any comments on the possibility that the number of jobs includes several hundred front office jobs that weren't moving anyway?

    3. @Nostradumbass:
      "Any comments on the possibility that the number of jobs includes several hundred front office jobs that weren't moving anyway?"

      Another Nostradumbass prediction? Sour grapes?

      "Possibility"?? You couldn't possibly know, mere supposition on your part and I'm not worried about possibilities.

      As usual, you blather on about something you know less than nothing about. Your replies are as infantile as your ideology. i.e. you learn nothing and you forget nothing.

    4. Odd response, you don't seem focused. I simply asked for your opinion. Since you are in Indiana, close to the source, you may have access to more information.
      It has been reported that the number of jobs supposedly saved is inflated by front office jobs that were never moving.

      But, whatever is going on, we know that United Technologies didn't cave for a lousy 7 million dollar a year tax break. Something more was either threatened or promised(or both).
      Trump may have reminded UT that they are very dependent on federal contracts and they should think of that before making himself look bad.

      Myself, I think that might be an effective policy. Sanders has been proposing the legislation for some time.

      Maybe you can ell us just what Trump has delivered.

    5. I don't know if Trump has delivered anything except his presence and invective.
      According to Inside Indiana Business:

      "[...] the company plans to make the Indianapolis plant a Center of Excellence for home gas furnace production in North America and is eyeing a $16 million investment in improvements to help make that happen."

      they are Indiana State incentives with 1 million going toward the improvements 1 million going toward training and 5 million going toward EDGE tax credits, in which the state will refund a portion of employee state tax withholdings over a ten year period. Judging from past State incentive programs, the first million will be in property tax abatement, possibly over 5 years. The second million as State corporate income tax abatement over an indeterminate period of time.

      In other words, this isn't Federal money it's State income tax money.

      Governor Pence is a Reagan fan and I've heard him quote, "You can accomplish anything as long as you don't care who gets the credit."

      Carrier also had to know that manufactures that relocate, or even try to start a new industry in Mexico don't fair very well or even go bankrupt.

      Out of three local manufacturers that opened a new plant in Mexico, One went bankrupt and sold out to a Japanese corporation which later moved the plant to Indonesia, another closed its plant (inability to attain quality on a high end product) and still hasn't recovered after 9 years, the third (an International whose main office and three manufacturing facilities are located here) closed all operations in Mexico and walked away without even going into full operation.

      The reasons were corruption, at all levels, unbelievable amounts of theft, inability to acquire skilled technicians, inability to acquire even enough nuts and bolts of sufficient quality to repair their machinery (everything had to be flown in at considerable cost). They even had to pay for armed guards 24/7 at the hotel(a real $#it hole)where their start up crew and engineers stayed.

    6. Which is why Whirlpool came back to Michigan and Ohio. Even components from China were quality fails.

    7. When a company gets a tax break, it is at the expense of the other companies in that state. It becomes a tax subsidy, that subsidy being funded by the recipient's competition in some cases.

    8. Ed,
      Let's see what Trump does to preserve parity. I'm certain that he's just getting started with his ideas of protecting American businesses here on our soil.

  3. Sarah's right. I stole your idea and posted her comments.

  4. ________ Withering Scorn ________

    Who could say what motivates the Mob?
    Immodestly I say it isn’t I.
    The preference seems to be for those who rob
    Hope from those who still would like to try
    Elevation over Desecration ––
    Repair and not despair at what we dread.
    It seems the Mob prefers alienation ––
    Not Healing –– only Enmity instead.
    Grumbling is easier than building
    Submitting to the impulse to surrender
    Captures for the League of Fakers gilding
    Offal –– yet another sad Pretender.
    Responding to the instinct to stampede
    Never made the Tides of Fear recede.

    ~ FreeThinke

  5. I'll bet my Carrier deal against her and barry's Solyndra deal (and how many more of those went on for 8 years and 10 trillion more in debt)

  6. Trump isn't the conservative hope against government bailouts?


  7. Trump isn't the conservative hope against government bailouts?


  8. From this link:

    Eric Bolling destroyed every argument detractors have with President-elect Donald Trump’s deal with Carrier in a 45-second clip that proved the agreement is good for all parties involved.

    The Fox News host pointed out that the employees will receive an average $70,700 in wages and benefits which, multiplied by 1,100 jobs, creates a taxable income of $77,770,000.

    Of that the federal government, on average, $19,442,500 in income tax while the state of Indiana would garner $2,564,510.

    Not to mention the economic activity the state will see as a result....
    More, including video, at the above link.

    1. I saw the Eric Bolling argument I think, where he was showing Juan Williams a whiteboard. It's true that the Carrier deal is helpful but the point is that it's not fair to Carriers competitors in the state, if they exist.

    2. Ed B, Whirlpool 'did' move its plant out of Indiana and didn't return. I don't believe that Carrier has any in-state competition.

  9. Imagine if Trump could benefit all of America's domestic manufacturers instead of a few arbitrary and connected few like he's doing now. All he'd have to do is put tariffs on Chinese imports...

    1. Thersites,
      IF Congress will pass such legislation.

      I have the feeling the many members of Congress are getting rake-offs from "free trade" deals.

    2. Here's Trump's "Tweeted" promise....

      The U.S. is going to substantialy reduce taxes and regulations on businesses, but any business that leaves our country for another country, fires its employees, builds a new factory or plant in the other country, and then thinks it will sell its product back into the U.S. ...... without retribution or consequence, is WRONG!

      There will be a tax on our soon to be strong border of 35% for these companies wanting to sell their product, cars, A.C. units etc., back across the border. This tax will make leaving financially difficult, but.....these companies are able to move between all 50 states, with no tax or tariff being charged.

      Please be forewarned prior to making a very expensive mistake! THE UNITED STATES IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS!

    3. Tariffs between are unconstitutional, aren't they?

  10. our trade deficit with China is $27 billion every month... $77 million a year is chump change.

    1. Thersites,
      Yes, chump change. But political theater that may set the tone for future. We shall see.

  11. Hmmm... for some reason I can't comment in the thread...

    I have the feeling the many members of Congress are getting rake-offs from "free trade" deals.

    Yes, they all seem to have "pass throughs" now... like the Clinton Foundation, Kerry Foundation, or McCain Leadership Institute. These ALL need to be prohibited. Only THAT will "drain the swamp".

    1. There's a reason why all of Plato's Republic's Leaders/Guardians were communists and prohibited from owning property... *shakes head*

    2. Thersites,
      These ALL need to be prohibited. Only THAT will "drain the swamp".

      I've grown to detest career politicians.


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