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| Silverfiddle Rant! |
"This is an arrogance coupled with an authoritarianism that is unseemly and un-American."
"You, sir, are the one ignoring the science."
"Quit lying to people about naturally acquired immunity."
Why isn't acquired immunity part of the vaccination conversation? Is public safety just a disguise for dictatorial decrees? Rand Paul seems to be on that trail...
"You, sir, are the one ignoring the science."
"The vast preponderance of scientific studies, dozens and dozens, show robust, long-lasting immunity after Covid infection. Even the CDC does not recommend measles vaccine if you have measles immunity. The same was true for smallpox. But you ignore history and science to shame the flat earthers, as you call them. You should be ashamed of yourself and apologize to the American people for being dishonest about naturally acquired immunity."
Related:
NBA Player Jonathan Isaac: I Didn't Come To My Current Vaccination Status By Studying Black History Or Watching Donald Trump
COVID ICU Doctor Quits Over Vaccine Mandate: "Hospitals Have An Absolute Commitment To Follow The Data"
Let' go Brandon!
ReplyDeleteIt's all about creating a documentation trail to justify America's new Social Credit Score System (SCSS). A naturally acquired virus can't "validate your parking" in it.
DeleteThey cannot deal with this issue because of a lack of ability to document natural immunity.
ReplyDeletePositive test? Sorry, no. The PCR test produces far too many false positives and health administration officials know it. That is useful in spreading panic, but makes the test useless in documenting natural immunity.
Doctor's certificate based on symptoms? No, that won't fly either. Too many other diseases have symptoms which are similar to Covid, and no doctor will accept the liability of putting a specific and dispositive diagnosis in writing.
That means that if they admit that natural immunity exists but will not accept it in place of the vaccine because of impossibility of documentation... Well, you can imagine what would happen.
But they cannot outright deny the existence, so they come out with all of the double talk and flim flam.
that's pretty much my theory too: practical outcome would be lots of false positives (people who mistakenly think they've had covid) believing they have no use for the vaccine.
DeleteThese policies have to be pretty damn simple to have the slightest chance of working, all sorts nuance must be sacrificed to this stark reality.
Here's a novel idea. Vaccines are available for anyone who wants one. For those who are vaccinated, covet is now like the flu, and less you are in an older category, and then you are marginally better off.
DeleteIt's time to declare this damn thing over and get government the hell out of our lives.
SF,
DeleteIt's time to declare this damn thing over and get government the hell out of our lives.
Up votes for that statement.
From a recent WAPO article... which seems to fit into the general theme of today's post.
ReplyDeleteOne reason public health officials may be afraid to acknowledge the effectiveness of natural immunity is that they fear it will lead some to choose getting the infection over vaccination. That’s a legitimate concern. But we can encourage all Americans to get vaccinated while still being honest about the data. In my clinical experience, I have found patients to be extremely forgiving with evolving data if you are honest and transparent with them. Yet, when asked the common question, “I’ve recovered from covid, is it absolutely essential that I get vaccinated?" many public health officials have put aside the data and responded with a synchronized “yes,” even as studies have shown that reinfections are rare and often asymptomatic or mild when they do occur.
The tide may finally be shifting, as pressure has grown on federal officials. Last week on CNN, Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease specialist, hinted that the government may be rethinking its stance on natural immunity, saying, "I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously."
This is in line with what I have been hearing and reading from people I respect in the medical and scientific community, all of whom are liberals, not conservatives, and they are well credentialed in their fields.
DeleteA big part of public health is propaganda and herding people to get them to do the right thing. Yes, over a half a million people have died in the US, but this pandemic is not at the level that justifies government tyranny. We have lost all perspective. If you analyze the data by age cohorts, you will see that unfortunately, 50 and over Make up the majority of cases, with people over 70 making up the biggest part of that percentage.
The other false pernicious idea we need to get rid of is that everyone needs to wear masks to protect the vulnerable and all situations. This is a recipe for never-ending government control.
A lot of people in this country are fed up, now just with covid but also with the economic situation. This whole damn thing is going to blow, and I will be cheering when it does. Governments at all levels have way way overstepped their bounds, and I hope a big punishment is coming.
"...they fear it will lead some to choose getting the infection over vaccination. That’s a legitimate concern."
DeleteLet me correct that for the Post. "...they fear it will lead some to choose getting the infection over vaccination. That’s an idiotic concern."
There are documented cases of individuals expressing a that preference. It may be an idiotic choice to take, but it's not idiotic to be concerned about the idiots who make that choice (and how they effect their non-idiot neighbours).
DeleteAlways remember, the America is home to a lot of people, >0 of whom are bona fide idiots.
There is a wonderful viewpoint overlooking a canyon in an Arizona mountain range, very popular with hikers. There was a waist high fence with signage warning hikers not to cross the fence and approach too closely to the edge of the cliff. The signs rather unnecessarily add that doing so would create a danger of falling off the cliffs. Some people, of course, climbed over the fence and fell off the cliff.
DeleteIn order to prevent any more idiots from getting killed by there own stupidity, the Arizona government installed a 10 foot high, heavy guage chain link fence. No one goes to that point any more because there is no longer any view to look at.
When we set policy based on the expected action of low IQ idiots, and force everyone to follow that policy as if they are also low IQ idiots, just as Arizona no longer had a view, we no longer have a functioning country.
++
Delete+/-
DeleteExcessive regulation is one way to ruin it for everyone. Unregulated idiocy is another. Libertarians are predisposed to prefer the latter, but as far as I can tell there is no easy, blanket solution to this general problem.
If you're too stupid to know that getting too close to a cliff edge can result in your injury or death, taxpayer dollars should not be wasted on you, especially when catering to the stupid ruins it for normal people.
DeleteI don't think it extrapolates that easily. jayhawk chose an unusually obvious case to illustrate his point.
DeleteThe US is spilling over with cases like the one Jayhawk cited.
DeleteWith natural immunity then there's no money to be made and no tyranny to enforce = no politician will ever agree to it. None.
ReplyDeleteIf there’s anything anyone of reasonable intellect has learned from the past half decade is that regardless of anything, there’s a certain faction of flat earther indoctrinated cultists that no one can convince them of anything that’s outside of the bubble they’ve been programmed to believe.
ReplyDeleteI didn't dream that up out of thin air. It comes from studies. Do you know masks are not always used in surgery? Go do some Yahoogling.
ReplyDelete** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT **
ReplyDeleteA search tip on issues that are now censored on the web or that will only result in covid hysteria propaganda:
Put in a custom time range from say 1970 (or 1920) to 2019
Here is a result when using this range and searching on "Mask health risks"
Google Results
The results are not good for the Fauci fellators.
Nobody's fellating anybody with a mask on.
Deletelol funny comment, but my point is, pre-covid, the medical and scientific community have been studying and debating mask effectiveness and deleterious effects in different situations. It is a mixed bag, but our government politburo can't say that. They've got to keep it simple for us simpletons.
DeleteAgree entirely, except I have more sympathy with the govt over this predicament.
DeleteNo fair. Internet Hyper-reality demands that all searches be "real time" searches. INGSOC requires proper censorship if Oligarchical Collectivism is to function properly.
DeleteAt least they haven't thrown that info down the memory hole. Yet
DeleteSF,
DeleteExcellent search tip! Thank you.
Now, just who is controlling the flow of information such that we have to constantly modify our search terms? Hmmmmmm?
Anyone can put this to rest by asking a politician if Covid-19 is real.
ReplyDeleteThe reply would be --- silence.
That's okay. The Gulf War Never took place either.
DeleteThe hyper-reality of Covid-19 lies completely within the "statistics". It's as "real" as the data they supposedly represent on your computer/ television screen.
btw - The media has become "officially embedded" with both the military and government agencies ever since Iraq.
DeleteIs it a surprise to anyone that the other government agencies and supporting government contractors have become as "authoritarian" as the USMC?
Have you looked at your "state covid map" to find out where they're "targeting arms" for vaccination today?
DeleteA politician answering the question would be telling everyone
Deletethat it is a act of bio warfare.
They can not answer the question for that reason.
I'm not arguing that masks do not become a wet and warm petri dish for germs. Without hospital protocols, I agree that they easily become dirty.
ReplyDeleteBut I hope I can put your mind at ease re CO2, because you can see immediately that masks do not inflate when you breathe into them, so they cannot be returning a significant amount of exhaled gas (including CO2). When asthmatics deliberately breath their own CO2, they breathe into a paper bag and you can see it inflate and deflate.
There's simply no way that my mask is inflating or pressurising my exhaled air enough to return cause an issue with recycled CO2.
Is public safety just a disguise for dictatorial decrees?
ReplyDeleteI didn't believe so at first, but I do believe so now.
My "conversion" began around June 1.
That expresses my position pretty well.
DeleteGo do some Yahoogling?
ReplyDeleteI think that this assumption that one can do their own online research and somehow debunk world renowned doctors and scientists along with the multi billion $ research labs such as the CDC has turned half the population into walking Dunning Kruger grafts.
You progs with no scientific background and no personal research do indeed overestimate your understanding of the scientific process, so I'll help you out.
ReplyDeleteBelow are two links. The first is from 21 years ago and it is a survey of studies and papers debating the use of masks in the operating room. Spoiler Alert: Surgeons and scientists are all over the map on whether the practice should continue. Non-scrubbed personnel like the anesthesia staff do not have to mask.
I post these as a public service. Science is an ongoing investigation and debate over facts and data, not an "Aha Gotcha!"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11512642/
https://pubs.asahq.org/anesthesiology/article/113/6/1447/9572/Is-Routine-Use-of-a-Face-Mask-Necessary-in-the
Ronald,
ReplyDeleteSee my Public Service Announcement below. I created a ready made search for you.
Happy researching!
** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT **
ReplyDeleteHere is another search result with the parameters set to before the COVID hysteria:
Masks SARS
The CDC is telling simple stories for simple minds.
Rather than making working class employees wear a germ-sodden face diaper all day, or forcing people socially distanced to strap that ill-fitting piece of germ paper on their faces as they stroll down a hallway alone, asking people to carry a hanky and use it to cough or sneeze into, and wash you hands after would be much more effective.
DeleteAnd masking children, restricting their behavior and keeping them out of school is child abuse.
You obviously missed the point.
ReplyDeleteDo you have a PHD in a medical field pertaining to viruses or such? Or for that matter, a degree of any type in any area of the medical field? Have you dedicated your professional career in these studies?
Would you trust a doctor who got his PHD from a 2 week online training seminar- even with an understanding he has Yahooging at his fingertips?
How is it that people with absolutely no knowledge of these fields would disqualify scientists, economists, scholars, historians, journalist etc and believe these folk spent their entire lives dedicated to deceive you while a reality TV star with decades of fraud and an exhaustive record of lying is their only beacon of truth and honesty based on what his supportive propaganda online support team tells them?
Hey, here’s a great idea. Go research the Dunning Kruger effect, while you ain’t doing nothing.
Very good of Sen Paul to call out the lack of scientific and medical credentials of the HHS secretary. What annoys the heck out of me is if you do a Google search for the top infectious disease expert in the US or the world and Fauci's name consistently comes up as the result of him being "crowned" such by the media. Unfortunately being top in your field is not a media or political appointment. Read his bio on the NAID site... his job is "oversees an extensive portfolio of basic and applied research". With all due respect to Dr. Fauci he is not a research scientist he is a government bureaucratic administrator. Don't get me wrong it is an important job, an he has a long list of public service awards and absolutely zero recognition for actual ground breaking scientific research. Want to follow the science? Listen to a scientist not an administrator. He does a disservice to all the fine scientific researchers working at his institute and at research labs and universities around the world by not rejecting such unearned accolades.
ReplyDelete+++
DeleteRonald,
ReplyDeleteYou are engaging in scientism. I am disqualifying no one. What I am pointing out is that reasonable scientists and doctors disagree because, if you read even the abstracts of the studies, the data is sketchy. It is very hard to construct a true controlled experiment to prover/disprove the efficacy of different measures.
Slapping on a person who is breathing normally does nothing. It is there to catch atomized saliva. A handkerchief does the same thing.
You leftwing progs regurgitating something a leftwing pundit said while mischaracterizing "the science" are Exhibit A in the Dunning Kruger Effect.
You don't know jack shit about science or the scientific method. It is clear from your comments you are an avid adherent to scientism.
The CDC was against masks before they were for them.
The Wuhan Lab Leak Theory was anathema before it became credible.
Biden is "protecting the vaccinated against the unvaccinated," but Biden also said (I'm approximating from memory) "If you're vaccinated you are protected and you can't harm others."
Fauci sez to wear two masks, and wear a mask outdoor even if you are vaccinated. What is the science behind masking outdoors?
If you actually believe the hogwash spewed by these idiots, you need your head examined.
Ronald is also a big fan of Trofim Lysenko, Dr. Fauci's modern Soviet counterpart.
ReplyDeleteLysenko knew all there was to know about denying funding and support to promising yet competing scientific ideas and endeavors.
ReplyDeletefrom Wikipedia: Soviet scientists who refused to renounce genetics were dismissed from their posts and left destitute. Hundreds if not thousands of others were imprisoned. Several were sentenced to death as enemies of the state, including the botanist Nikolai Vavilov.[4] Lysenko's actions and practices contributed to the famines that killed millions of Soviet people;[4] the adoption of his methods from 1958 in the People's Republic of China had similarly calamitous results, culminating in the Great Chinese Famine of 1959 to 1962.[4]
ReplyDelete@ FJ: +++
ReplyDeleteRonald keeps screaming SCIENCE! when it is clear he does not understand that it is a process. He also blathers on about people with PhDs knowing more than you or me. OK, granted. But he and his fellow progressive cultists ignore the scientists and professors they disagree with. As you observed earlier in this thread: He is a pot who needs to look in the mirror.
I’m well aware that changes of events changes the scientific response and approach. Look at weather forecasting.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with mixing science with politics is that you always end up with politics. Look at NOAA and SharpieGate- undermining the integrity of a lifesaving program for no more than a political image.
The politics in COVID has been overwhelming with dark money pouring in from the likes of the John Bircher Society et al, GOP state governors with presidential ambitions, Carson Tucker demanding police arrest parents for putting masks on their children (which you seem to parrot), and the mindless Trump cultists clinging to every word that suits their pro-COVID agenda.
The integrity of WHO, the CDC, or Fauci was intact until it was demonized by Trump and his right wing propaganda media machine. Once Fauci got on Trump’s hit list of enemies, the MAGAnuts went wild.
^^Apologist for CDC, et al, Real Time Control Loops in a Society of Control on Deep State Autopilot and against all forces that would deny said authoritarians their anti-liberty "adjustments"^^
ReplyDeleteRonald, you accept the information from scientists you agree with, and reject information from scientists you disagree with. You are driven by politics, not science. Your argumentation is built upon a house of sand. You have zero credibility
ReplyDeleteJohn Birch society???
ReplyDeleteRonald thinks he's still in the 1950s
If you’re unaware of the John Birch Society’s influence on today’s politics, you should really broaden your news intake.
ReplyDeleteBut then, I do understand that politically censored mandates and what regressives are allowed to deem true or fake would play a huge role.
*cough...Bullsh*t...cough*
ReplyDeleteThis is all about a Society of Control's Miss Use and Miss Application of simulacra.
Carl Jung, "Aion"
ReplyDelete"But actually one has acquired nothing more than it's name (ie Covid), despite the age-old prejudice that the name magically represents the thing, and its sufficient to pronounce the name in order to posit the thing's existence. In the course of the millenia the reasoning mind has been given every opportunity to see throught the fitility of this conceit, though that has done nothing to prevent the intellectual mastery of the thing from being accepted at its' face value. It is precisely our experiences in psychology which demonstrate as plainly as could be wished that the intellectual "grasp" of a psychological fact produces no more than a concept of it, a concept that is no more than a name, a flatus vocis.
The ntellectual counters can be bandied about easily enough, they pass lightly from hand to hand, for they have no weight or substance. They sound full but are hollow: and though proporting to designate a heavy task or obligation, they commit us to nothing, the intellect is undeniably useful in its' field, but it is a great cheat and illusionist outside of it whenever it tries to manipulate values."
Ronald,
ReplyDeletePlease educate us. In what way has the John Birch society influenced this debate? How much money have they spent?
Ronald,
ReplyDeletePlease provide us examples of how the John Birch society has injected misinformation into the national dialogue about covid
"Tuberculosis was thought to be spread by close-range droplets until an ingenious set of experiments proved that it was airborne. Much is still unknown about the super-spreading of SARS-CoV-2. It might be that some people are super-emitters of the virus, in that they spread it a lot more than other people."... and that they may very well be asymptomatic themselves.
ReplyDeleteCould this be the real reason Fauci wants EVERYONE vaccinated? Especially if these "super-emitters" are of an single yet identifiable minority group?
...because Fauci's Covid approach closely resembles the CDC's <a href='https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/factsheets/TB-in-the-US-508.pdf#:~:text=Tuberculosis%20%28TB%29%20is%20a%20preventable%2C%20curable%20disease%20that,the%20impact%20of%20COVID-19%20on%20TB%20case%20reporting.">TB approach</a> of "total eradication".
ReplyDelete.because Fauci's Covid approach closely resembles the CDC's TB approach of "total eradication".
ReplyDelete:P
ReplyDeletehttps://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jul/29/as-anti-mask-billboards-go-up-in-spokane-area-offi/
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thedailybeast.com/far-right-john-birch-society-wants-anti-mask-protests-to-fuel-its-comeback
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/01/15/john-birch-society-qanon-reagan-republicans-goldwater/
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/16/the-john-birch-society-is-alive-and-well-in-the-lone-star-state-215377/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-john-birch-society-is-doing-fine-thank-you-11607721871
I ask for facts and data and Ronald gives me opinion pieces. Now, Ronald can you prove any kind of impact whatsoever from this organization putting up billboards? Cause and effect, Ronald. Cause and effect.
ReplyDeleteRonald Ward:
ReplyDeleteYou are not credible. You ignore scientists who disagree with your dogma, while trumpeting those who agree with your dogma.
That fact alone and validates everything you have to say about this issue. I have posted facts, data, links to studies. You post opinion pieces. You lose. And not because my science Trump your science, or whatever crap you people spew, but because you are closed-minded and politically and ideologically indoctrinated and that blind you to everything that violates your orthodoxy.
Silver replied...
Delete"You are not credible. You ignore scientists who disagree with your dogma, while trumpeting those who agree with your dogma."
Isn't that true with most everyone? The anti-vax crowd ignores scientists everyday who do comport with their beliefs.
Most fundamentalist Christians will die on the hill of ignoring scientist everyday to defend their views of creation, miracles and the supernatural.
Are all of those ppl also as uncredible as you claim Ronald is.
I don't know what got to you Silver, but almost every word you posted would seem to also invalidate much of what Christians and other right leaning people have to say on many things in the world today.
Does the left go too far sometimes? Or even many times? Yes, of course. But they [We] do sometimes get it right. Just like those on the right do sometimes get it right.
Dave,
DeleteI hate to have to keep saying this to you, but I am not the strawman you are looking for. I am not your rightwing bogey man. I am not a fundamentalist Christian and I am not an anti-vaxxer.
Of course most people cherry pick, but in this thread, Ronald Ward is the person doing it, so he is the one I address.
I've said it before but I'll say it again: I turned off all the rightwing stuff years ago. I am conservative in a traditional Russell Kirk sense, and I am a Christian, but I abhor the "Religious Right" and I think the only thing worse that the Republican party is the Democrat party. I am a man without a tribe, and it feels pretty good. Ideology and party do not guide my decision-making.
Silver said...
Delete"I hate to have to keep saying this to you, but I am not the strawman you are looking for. I am not your rightwing bogey man. I am not a fundamentalist Christian and I am not an anti-vaxxer.
I don't think I claimed you were "the strawmam I am looking for." Because I am not looking for any strawmen, of any sort.
And in this thread, yes, you focused on Ronald Ward, which may or may not be valid, with a critique that called him out because you believe he is arguing with science.
My point was that the same criticism about the view of science you say Ronald holds, could be leveled at any number of others who comment here. Almost everyday.
Yet, and for me, this is huge, rarely do I ever see you as withering against the anti science, or fundamentalist crowd on the right.
While it may not have come up on this specific thread, it has on others and rarely if ever have I seen such a takedown from you.
What is that right wing stuff that turned you off? I've heard that from many people who once called themselves conservatives, but now claim they have no tribe. But in my experience, I have seen darn few of you guys stepping up and detailing what caused ppl like to turn off "all that rightwing stuff."
What was it? What was that rightwing stuff that got to you?
It would make an interesting post and I am sure generate good discussion.
It's probably Ronald's shitty disposition and dismissive tone. He doesn't come here for legitimate debate. He provokes and argues in bad faith. He imagines himself a warrior for the progressive cause, battling the MAGAts and destroying their arguments, although he has never succeed in any of that here. That is why he is unique here and why I flame him every time he pokes his little pinhead up out of his gopher hole.
Delete@ Dave: What was that rightwing stuff that got to you?
DeleteIt would make an interesting post and I am sure generate good discussion.
I stirred up my friends here with this one. I'll leave it to others as to who had the better argument, but the post-election buffoonery by Team Kraken is where I said my final goodbye. I am open to the possibility that there was election fraud, but Rudy and the gang did not do the real work and bring real evidence. It was a farce.
Stick a Fork in It
I also refer you to
Jan 24: You Are Here
26 Jan: Sean Hannity won't save you
Those posts have pretty much explained where I am at. A more detailed explanation would not be interesting. I am out there in the same space the growing number of good liberals are occupying. We are all tired of the ideological BS, so we put on hip waders and found our way out.
I will also be honest enough to say, right now, no way in hell I vote for a Democrat. I will also say, if the shit goes down, I am there with my tribe, and that ain't the urban elites and college kids. It's the truckers, farmers, and guys driving down the road flying big American flags off their trucks. That is where I come from, that is who I am, and I can't change it. We may disagree on some things, but our agreement on the fundamentals doesn't even need to be stated.
"It's probably Ronald's shitty disposition and dismissive tone."
DeleteWell, that certainly validates your unbiased stick-to-the-facts protocol and rejection of off topic arguments now doesn't it?
Oh shit, so sorry about getting so shitty again.
I mean who am I to inject politics into a conversation pertaining to a sitting U.S. Senator "lambasting" the HHS Secretary over something as apolitical as natural immunity verse vaccinations?
Damn it, there goes my shitty demeanor again.
Speaking of apolitical and your tuning away from right wing stuff years ago, it's indeed interesting you repeatedly refer to one party as the "Democrat Party" (which there is no such thing) while not referring to the opposition as something like the "repuke party" or such?
It reminds me of what Paul Brians, a national authority on English grammar wrote years ago, long before GWB injected it into his abuse of the English language or when Trump (well SHIT SHIT SHIT, there I go again) used it on a regular basis, put it:
democrat / democratic
"Certain Republican members of Congress have played the childish game in recent years of referring to the opposition as the “Democrat Party,” hoping to imply that Democrats are not truly democratic. They succeed only in making themselves sound ignorant, and so will you if you imitate them. The name is “Democratic Party.” After all, we don’t say “Republic Party.”
I am not unbiased. No one is. But glad you could get that little rant off your chest.
DeleteNot sure who my tribe are. It's tempting to consider myself a special snowflake who doesn't have one, but I don't think that's likely. The only thing that's really clear to me is that I'm not a tory. I hated them for as long as I can remember, from before it could possibly have been rational (not that there wasn't good reason, just that I was too young for reason). You'd probably lump me in with the urban elites, but I'm not really invited to that party either; i spent a lot of time in colleges but the kind of technicalities that appeal to me are a far cry from the kind of fashionable liberal arts and humanities that come to mind when people talk about elites.
DeleteBut I hope my allegience to them, whoever they are, is limited: given the extraordinary shower of incompetence this current government is displaying, it is not impossible to conceive of a medium-term future where my fellow Tory-haters run amok and set up a guillotine in the public square. At some point before it gets to that point, I feel like if I were a good person I should have switched sides... but how close would we have to get to that appalling outcome?
Politics is always a choice between the lesser of two evils. That is why I don't blame people for their party affiliation or for voting how they voted.
DeleteWhat I hate so much now is how everything has become politicized. We can't get away from it.
I think next time I need a resolution, I'll make it to immerse myself in current affairs beyond Britain and America and W. Europe. Not only do I want to build up more understanding about a wider world anyway, but mainly I think it would help break my bad habits of political partiality.
DeleteJez,
Deletemainly I think it would help break my bad habits of political partiality
Commendable that you recognize cognitive bias.
I do at least detect an iota of admission the JBS isn’t dead and gone as you previously insinuated.
ReplyDeleteNow you want to debate (I think) over what kind of an impact they’re having. I don’t have any data of that impact anymore than I have data of what kind of impact Tucker Carson makes or any of the anti-vaxers or anti-maskers make. I don’t have data on how many people took a shot of Clorox, took horse medicine, or shoved a blow dryer up their ass because they were listening to the propaganda machine or were overcome with the need to own the libs.
And even if I did have this data, it’s unknown if you’d accept it anyway.
Ronald... the Russians are diluting our vaccines....
ReplyDeleteproof - Russia still exists.
Finally, an admission from Ronald there is much we don't know. This is a refreshing turn in our continuing conversations.
ReplyDeleteYou taught me something. I thought the John Birch Society was dead and gone. They probably rank right up there with dominionists on the power rankings...
Ronald: Where do you stand on acquired immunity?
I far trust Xavier Becerra over Rand Paul and I believe that Becerra's assessment of facts and data pertaining to acquired immunity, including that of Israel is more accurate and realistic than that of Paul.
ReplyDeletePaul's blanket assertion is picking the black out of chicken shit and pretending it isn't chicken shit. His results came from a study of a small amount of samples of antibodies which is only one measure of how the immune system protects the body. It omits several variants as well as other factors.
This isn't an isolated case where Rand Paul has spouted this (albeit, he did come loaded with a well prepared political rant in this case). He and Fauci have went toe to toe on several occasions.
I don't pretend to be a doctor but by all credible medical reports, credible fact checkers, the CDC, W.H.O, the percentage of anti-vaxers hospital bed occupants, the sky high fatalities of GOP pro-COVID states, the overwhelming propaganda coming from the rabid far-right media, listening to the Facebook memes indoctrinated, the blatant resistance and denial of the Trump administration from start to end, and his deranged cultist doing all they can to keep it going (oh, and that dark money pouring in that I mentioned earlier), along with Rand Paul being a batshit crazy flat earther to begin with, it's within the realm of reasonable intellect to reject this political snake oil and instead, follow the science and the experts.
...His results came from a study of a small amount of samples... lol!
ReplyDeleteData Sources:
Anonymized Electronic Medical Records (EMRs) were retrieved from MHS’ centralized computerized database for the study period of March 1, 2020 to August 14, 2021.
MHS is a 2.5-million-member, state-mandated, non-for-profit, second largest health fund in Israel, which covers 26% of the population and provides a representative sample of the Israeli population. Membership in one of the four national health funds is mandatory, whereas all citizens must freely choose one of four funds, which are prohibited by law from denying membership to any resident. MHS has maintained a centralized database of EMRs for three decades, with less than 1% disengagement rate among its members, allowing for a comprehensive longitudinal medical follow-up. The centralized dataset includes extensive demographic data, clinical measurements, outpatient and hospital diagnoses and procedures, medications dispensed, imaging performed and comprehensive laboratory data from a single central laboratory.
...and picking one variable (antibodies) to measure (and not multiple variables) to study is how actual (not utopian) science is done so that "causality" can be directly attributed to said single variable.
@ Joe: BOOM!
ReplyDeleteRonald,
ReplyDeleteSo, you trust an oily bureaucrat who has mooched off the government his whole life instead of a man with a medical degree. Got it. That is your prerogative and proves what I said earlier: You will denigrate doctors you disagree with. You're picking and choosing based on ideology and politics, not scientific medical evidence.
Here is another search result. The Scientism pinheads wont' like the results because they are ambiguous. Science is not a vending machine selling certainty to the simple-minded. It is a process of information gathering and analysis.
ReplyDeleteAcquired Immunity Studies covid
Yes, natural immunity is a real thing. The NIH Says so, just like we were taught in grade school science class.
Politburo Kommisar and the Public Health Ministers don't want to acknowledge this because it would discourage people from getting the vaccine and instead purposely getting themselves infected with covid.
For healthy children, adolescents, and young adults, this is the better strategy.
For people older than that, it becomes a worse tradeoff the older you are. And regardless what the CDC Bureaucrats tell you, it is all about tradeoffs, just like the rest of real life.
I'm not sure if "oily" is a Latino reference or not but neither would be a reason to give less credence than our plutocratic and social Darwinism senator from KY.
ReplyDeleteI don't trust doctors with a proven history of being a quack, regardless of political affiliation.
It's difficult to keep ideologies and politics out of it when we're witnessing in real time the party of Trump doing all they can to promote more deaths and destruction of the economy for no more than it being politically advantageous.
It's my honest opinion that they've learned from Trump that the more they muddy the water and throw sand in the air, the more distracted the constituents are while they destroy democracy with their stolen election and voter suppression initiatives, which we are also witnessing in real time.
..."oily" is a Latino reference...
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell is wrong with you? You lefties traffic in the absolute worst stereotypes. He's a lawyer and a politician, which is where a normal, non-prejudiced person's mind would go.
You are the only person in the forum constantly mentioning Trump. Seriously, you should seek psychological counseling.
As far as I know, Dr. Paul has never been charged with quackery, and still practices medicine. Do you have any facts to back up your little immature rant?
Did you look at any of the studies from the search results? Where do you stand on acquired immunity?
To state "..."oily" is a Latino reference..." is taking my question out of context to suggest I made a statement which I did not.
ReplyDeleteNutjobs and quacks are seldom "charged" for their eccentricity so your assumed alluding to criminal activity is again attempting to create your own argument out of thin air.
If you are unaware of the dominance of Trumpism, the allegiance of his base and the hold they have on today's so-called conservative leaders and how that plays a role in the anti-science and COVID recovery resistance movement, I again suggest you expand your news and research opportunities. Tucker, The Federalist, Epochtimes, GatewayPundit, and AmericanThinker ain't going to tell you these things.
I've already given my take on acquired immunity and that while it has shown some positive signs in some studies and in some cases, the overall consensus of the medical and scientific professional world is that vaccinations are the clear path in getting past the virus along with masking, social distancing, and common sense hygiene.
I suppose some select studies and a few quack doctors have proven that gulping Clorox has pulled a few from the jaws of death but that doesn't mean we should abandon vaccines, masks, and the recommendations from the majority of our leading medical professionals.
Ronald, you own your stereotypes. I don't know why such a thing would come to your mind about an American of Mexican descent, but you'll have to work that out for yourself.
ReplyDeleteDoctors get their licensed pull all the time for violations of practice, which could include quackery. That has not happened to Dr. Rand Paul. Glad we would clear that up.
I am well aware of what is going on in Trumpland. I don't traffic in that here, so go somewhere else with your Trump rants. They are off-topic since this post is not about him.
If you want to continue posting here (and you are welcome) please stay on topic.
You are obsessed with Trump and partisan politics, so to unleash those rants you should go to the many leftwing toilets along the left Blogistan Superhighway. I'm sure they would love adding your identical, unhinged ranting voice crapping noisily in the echo chamber.
As for posting here, please stay on topic. And you never know, we might end up having a post on El Donaldo, and then of course you would have free rein to indulge in your wildest unhinged outbursts.