Related question. What action should Iran take to events of the same week, in which two of its major shipping ports were attacked and severely damaged, three large container ships destroyed, and two others severely damaged?
Steady as she goes. If we haven't learned anything from the Iraq debacle (where our forces are still--right now--under attack from Iranian forces) we are colossal fools.
If we must retaliate, it needs to be against Quds Forces, Revolutionary Guard and Hezbo targets.
What would justify an attack which could turn into a larger fiasco than Iraq? I fear the only way out of the corner he's backed into is a game of idiot's delight which Iran seems willing to play.
Whatever course of action is popular in bloglandia, it bears reminding, that every US/Coalition Soldier [and Contractors] in Iraq are immediately under the gun from Iranian-backed Shi'a Militia Groups. The recent spate of rocketing Coalition locations doesn't make the news, because thankfully nobody has been killed/wounded....but make no mistake, every location is dialed in, and will be attacked if/when the U.S. conducts strikes against Iran.
Indeed. Thanks to our tabloid press, I bet most Americans are not aware of the uneasy and unstated modus vivindi between the US and Iran in that neck of the woods. And Iran enjoys home turf advantage.
Our government really needs to ditch outmoded thinking and come up with some new strategery.
Just piggybacking on your informed comment. I don't mean to say we do nothing, just that people make decisions look further than the tips of their noses.
I have no facts about what Iran did or didn’t do. All I will say is that if the US flew surveillance drones in Iran airspace, try to imagine what our reaction would be if they flew the same kind of aircraft in ours. Unless we declare war on Iran and intend to invade that country (which would be stupid to an exponent of ten), then we have no business operating inside their territory. Moreover, if Iranian forces attacked Japanese registry vessels, then that would be a matter for Japan to resolve, not the USA.
CI & SF are speaking wisely. Every decision has consequences. Government officials ought to have a clue about what these might be before rendering a poor decision. I’m not one of those who thinks that a poor decision is better than no decision. The costs are too high. Besides, no decision is a decision. I have no confidence that DJT is getting the best advice, but even that doesn’t matter. He’s the honcho, so any decision belongs to him alone.
Back in the day, when we had an American press, journalists never trusted anything the government told them. There is a reason for this, of course. Some called it operational disinformation, but it really came down to outright lying. Still, the press doesn’t have a right to know everything the government is doing so maybe if they want a story, they ought to get off their powder puff asses and do some investigative journalism. Interestingly, today the government doesn’t trust the media’s motivations (which have become purely political) so instead of feeding the snarky sh*ts false information, dis-embed them and let them discover their own information and stop pretending that we care whether one of these worms is beheaded. As Popeye would say, “Ya takes yer chances, mate.
I’ll conclude by saying “Good luck getting government to ditch outmoded thinking. All those people at Foggy Bottom go to the same schools, they all work for the same bureaucrats, and every one of them places career ahead of national interest. I doubt if anyone at State gives a rat’s ass about our military or DoD contractors, but that won’t stop them from proceeding down that same old predictable path of incompetence.
@ Mustang: "Good luck getting government to ditch outmoded thinking. ..."
Unfortunate but true. "Weakness is strength and strength is weakness" sounds like a new age mumbo jumbo, but its true.
Small or weak nations learn how to be crafty and punch above their weight. Look at Iran, Israel, and the dying Russia.
Meanwhile, our overwhelming strength has destroyed any subtlety of thought and we instead rely on bull rushing into everything without thinking it through.
That goes for everything government does, every worthless program, not just military action.
Break down the door, throw an obscene amount of money at it, and when the project fails, wave some flags, appeal to emotions, and print more money to throw at it.
More news. The Iranians didn't shoot down the P-8. that was controlling the drone.
Here's my speculation... The P-8 and it's accompanying MQ-4C Triton drone were patrolling the Iranian coast (it WASN'T a Global Hawk drone as later claimed). The tanker explosions go off, and the P-8 tracks some Iranian guard speedboats heading towards one of the attacked tankers. It then sends the MQ-4C drone "down low" to take some pictures, which are relayed back to the P-8. An on-shore Iranian missile battery tracks the drone, and thinking that it's attacking the speedboat, shoots it down.
Why do I think this? Triton builds on elements of the RQ-4 Global Hawk; changes include reinforcements to the air frame and wing, de-icing systems, and lightning protection systems. These capabilities allow the aircraft to descend through cloud layers to gain a closer view of ships and other targets at sea when needed.
My response to the drone attack would be to shoot down an Iranian drone. My response to the Tanker attack would be to declare them an act of naval piracy perpetrated by the IRNG Navy, and declare them to the UN and NATO bodies as "pirates".
This follows the case for the US declaring the IRGC a "terrorist organization"... and provides cover for the UN and global bodies to exonerate the US of any attacks upon the Iranian Navy as performing anti-piracy operations.
I'm with DJT. It was an unmanned aircraft. There is a question in probable most people's mind of whether it was in international airspace or not. I wouldn't bomb a bunch of stuff and kill 150 people beside. Iran will eventually do something stupid enough that there won't be question in the majority of minds that Iran deserved whatever smackdown we give them.
In other words you expect them to do something stupid and we'll do something stupid to retaliate? Do we do it unilaterally, an old fashioned dick measuring contest?
Just suppose that a rogue element (IRGC) of a rogue regime, and by that I mean Iran, decided to provoke things and start a conflict with America. Would you want that Rogue General to get away with his activity? When Donald Trump suggests that perhaps that's what happened he's called the new Obama. The next step is whether Iran claims they really did intend to shoot the Drone down. The regime may have contacted President Trump through back channels to tell him it was a rogue element. Not something they would admit publicly. But if they claim this was their intent all along? There's plenty of time to go to war. We have all weekend.
Attack their cyber operations. We set them back for months if not years with our attacks on their nuclear program. Take out their grid... whatever... be clever for once and leave no traces.
Allow Israel to take whatever action they wish, equip them, arm them, provide them with intel. Then tell Tehran their ancestors will curse their memories 10,000 years in the future.
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Alamo Ike said
ReplyDeleteNuke Tehran before Iran can nuke us. Do the world a favor and wipe them out once and for all.
Related question. What action should Iran take to events of the same week, in which two of its major shipping ports were attacked and severely damaged, three large container ships destroyed, and two others severely damaged?
ReplyDeleteWho are the attackers?
DeleteCan you point us to some news stories?
Unless the question was hypothetical, it is indeed "fake news".....
DeleteEnquiring minds want to know.
DeleteSteady as she goes. If we haven't learned anything from the Iraq debacle (where our forces are still--right now--under attack from Iranian forces) we are colossal fools.
ReplyDeleteIf we must retaliate, it needs to be against Quds Forces, Revolutionary Guard and Hezbo targets.
What would justify an attack which could turn into a larger fiasco than Iraq?
DeleteI fear the only way out of the corner he's backed into is a game of idiot's delight which Iran seems willing to play.
So lets just do nothing when attacked, like the dithering Professor O'Bungle. Maybe we could hand them some more cash...
DeleteWe have options, but attacking Iran should not be one of them.
Whatever course of action is popular in bloglandia, it bears reminding, that every US/Coalition Soldier [and Contractors] in Iraq are immediately under the gun from Iranian-backed Shi'a Militia Groups. The recent spate of rocketing Coalition locations doesn't make the news, because thankfully nobody has been killed/wounded....but make no mistake, every location is dialed in, and will be attacked if/when the U.S. conducts strikes against Iran.
ReplyDeleteIndeed. Thanks to our tabloid press, I bet most Americans are not aware of the uneasy and unstated modus vivindi between the US and Iran in that neck of the woods. And Iran enjoys home turf advantage.
DeleteOur government really needs to ditch outmoded thinking and come up with some new strategery.
Preach it Brother!
Delete+100
Just piggybacking on your informed comment. I don't mean to say we do nothing, just that people make decisions look further than the tips of their noses.
DeleteI have no facts about what Iran did or didn’t do. All I will say is that if the US flew surveillance drones in Iran airspace, try to imagine what our reaction would be if they flew the same kind of aircraft in ours. Unless we declare war on Iran and intend to invade that country (which would be stupid to an exponent of ten), then we have no business operating inside their territory. Moreover, if Iranian forces attacked Japanese registry vessels, then that would be a matter for Japan to resolve, not the USA.
DeleteCI & SF are speaking wisely. Every decision has consequences. Government officials ought to have a clue about what these might be before rendering a poor decision. I’m not one of those who thinks that a poor decision is better than no decision. The costs are too high. Besides, no decision is a decision. I have no confidence that DJT is getting the best advice, but even that doesn’t matter. He’s the honcho, so any decision belongs to him alone.
Back in the day, when we had an American press, journalists never trusted anything the government told them. There is a reason for this, of course. Some called it operational disinformation, but it really came down to outright lying. Still, the press doesn’t have a right to know everything the government is doing so maybe if they want a story, they ought to get off their powder puff asses and do some investigative journalism. Interestingly, today the government doesn’t trust the media’s motivations (which have become purely political) so instead of feeding the snarky sh*ts false information, dis-embed them and let them discover their own information and stop pretending that we care whether one of these worms is beheaded. As Popeye would say, “Ya takes yer chances, mate.
I’ll conclude by saying “Good luck getting government to ditch outmoded thinking. All those people at Foggy Bottom go to the same schools, they all work for the same bureaucrats, and every one of them places career ahead of national interest. I doubt if anyone at State gives a rat’s ass about our military or DoD contractors, but that won’t stop them from proceeding down that same old predictable path of incompetence.
@ Mustang: "Good luck getting government to ditch outmoded thinking. ..."
DeleteUnfortunate but true. "Weakness is strength and strength is weakness" sounds like a new age mumbo jumbo, but its true.
Small or weak nations learn how to be crafty and punch above their weight. Look at Iran, Israel, and the dying Russia.
Meanwhile, our overwhelming strength has destroyed any subtlety of thought and we instead rely on bull rushing into everything without thinking it through.
That goes for everything government does, every worthless program, not just military action.
Break down the door, throw an obscene amount of money at it, and when the project fails, wave some flags, appeal to emotions, and print more money to throw at it.
Bout sums it up Silver. And neither ruling party if free from, nor can it escape the criticism. We are an equal opportunity FU government.
DeleteMore news. The Iranians didn't shoot down the P-8. that was controlling the drone.
ReplyDeleteHere's my speculation... The P-8 and it's accompanying MQ-4C Triton drone were patrolling the Iranian coast (it WASN'T a Global Hawk drone as later claimed). The tanker explosions go off, and the P-8 tracks some Iranian guard speedboats heading towards one of the attacked tankers. It then sends the MQ-4C drone "down low" to take some pictures, which are relayed back to the P-8. An on-shore Iranian missile battery tracks the drone, and thinking that it's attacking the speedboat, shoots it down.
Why do I think this? Triton builds on elements of the RQ-4 Global Hawk; changes include reinforcements to the air frame and wing, de-icing systems, and lightning protection systems. These capabilities allow the aircraft to descend through cloud layers to gain a closer view of ships and other targets at sea when needed.
DeleteMy response to the drone attack would be to shoot down an Iranian drone. My response to the Tanker attack would be to declare them an act of naval piracy perpetrated by the IRNG Navy, and declare them to the UN and NATO bodies as "pirates".
DeleteThis follows the case for the US declaring the IRGC a "terrorist organization"... and provides cover for the UN and global bodies to exonerate the US of any attacks upon the Iranian Navy as performing anti-piracy operations.
Deleteps - From now on, we need to turn off the drones VIS navigation lights...
DeleteIgnore the scenario above. The drone attack was days after the surveillance footage was released (last week vs. this past W/Th).
ReplyDeletebtw - Talk about a target rich environment...
DeleteShut down Kharg Island with a MOAB.
Delete$4+ gasoline.
DeleteI'm with DJT. It was an unmanned aircraft. There is a question in probable most people's mind of whether it was in international airspace or not. I wouldn't bomb a bunch of stuff and kill 150 people beside. Iran will eventually do something stupid enough that there won't be question in the majority of minds that Iran deserved whatever smackdown we give them.
ReplyDeleteIn other words you expect them to do something stupid and we'll do something stupid to retaliate?
DeleteDo we do it unilaterally, an old fashioned dick measuring contest?
Egg-Zack-Lee
DeleteThe Bolton Doctrine,
Just suppose that a rogue element (IRGC) of a rogue regime, and by that I mean Iran, decided to provoke things and start a conflict with America.
ReplyDeleteWould you want that Rogue General to get away with his activity?
When Donald Trump suggests that perhaps that's what happened he's called the new Obama.
The next step is whether Iran claims they really did intend to shoot the Drone down.
The regime may have contacted President Trump through back channels to tell him it was a rogue element.
Not something they would admit publicly.
But if they claim this was their intent all along?
There's plenty of time to go to war.
We have all weekend.
Attack their cyber operations. We set them back for months if not years with our attacks on their nuclear program. Take out their grid... whatever... be clever for once and leave no traces.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Bunk.
ReplyDeleteAnd, for what it's worth, think Trump avoided a trap. Seen the video of top level Dems dancing after the "let's go to war" meeting at the WH?
Allow Israel to take whatever action they wish, equip them, arm them, provide them with intel. Then tell Tehran their ancestors will curse their memories 10,000 years in the future.
ReplyDelete