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Wednesday, May 11, 2016

Economic Reality

How is this not a death spiral?


I'm glad that I'm as old as I am. Our posterity will have it really rough.

61 comments:

  1. "How is this not a death spiral?"

    Yes and, speaking of "Our posterity" it is astonishing that Sanders' whackadoodle economic policies get major support from our youth; the demographic that will inherit a doubling of what's shown in todays graph. How can anyone defend what passes for education in our public school system?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Well, obviously, spirals have a circular motion with decreasing radius to them.
    That's more of a death spike.
    :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Or a Red Hot Poker inserted you-know-where, right ?

      Delete
  3. Those of us of a certain age won't escape the death march. And that is what it is for seniors. Changes in Medicare, expensive drug limits. And they are working to make sure we can't even get the pain pill that Obama so clearly prescribed in lieu of surgery.

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  4. If Trump really wants to engage a politically incorrect debate, he should tell voters, That The rear problems in this country are not because of Mexicans and Muslims, but because of the Liberial Boot Lickers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What sort of "rear problems" do you speak of?

      Delete
    2. Stupid is as Stupis does .. Right Frank Lee! And by God You sure are Stupid.

      Delete
    3. Miss Pee Pee's days are drawing to a close.

      She just exacerbates the nation's woes.

      She offers not a thing constructive here

      While making sure no one will hold her dear.

      Her sad remains won't be put in casket

      Or even cut up layered in a basket.

      She never will be buried in a hole
.
      She'll rot above-ground as befits a troll.


      Poor Miss Pee Pee, she cain't hep it, she's just a typical Assachewshitsian Commie Loon. 


      Delete
  5. Bernie wins West Virginia. He's just not going away is he.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We on the Right should thank God for Bernie. His policies stink on ice, but right now he's making H. Rodham Clinton look bad. In that regard bernie is a highly useful idiot.

      Besides, he's genuinely LIKABLE –– something the Witch never has been and never will be.

      With Bernie sticking around till the bitter end conservative operatives don't have to bother playing the Divide and Conquer game. The D'Rats are doing this to themselves.

      Not that the Stabbies in the GOP aren't flirting with suicide in the same fashion, themselves. Thank God THEIR days are drawing to a close.

      But who knows what Rough Beast will soon be slouching its way toward Dee Cee?

      }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} SHUDDER {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{

      Delete
  6. Is it sustainable?
    Borrowing below the inflation rate means it's sustainable for some time.

    You have to look at the cost of debt service as well as the overall debt.

    Do we have to pare back? I would think so but a lot of economists disagree on the urgency.
    Of course, it's best to do it out of an obvious need rather than out of simple dogmatic ideology.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Here is a helpful link:

      http://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/policy-basics-where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-go

      It is acceptable that interest on our national debt is 6% and growing?

      $223 Billion is a lot of money. A growing debt combined with rising interest rates would exacerbate our fiscal situation.

      Debt and borrowing can be good if you are paying something off, like our responsible bi-partisan government did after WW II.

      It can also be a good thing if you need a large amount of money right now to build something that will provide returns into the future.

      Our government is doing neither of these things. It's a crackwhore running up her credit card to maintain a reckless, irresponsible and unsustainable lifestyle.

      This is a bi-partisan problem that borders on criminal irresponsibility.

      Delete
    2. Yes, so let's give free childcare, free college, free healthcare...let's pile it on for "simple dogmatic ideology" and make things worse instead of thinking things through, developing a strategy to help and still be fiscally sane.
      thanks so much.

      Delete
    3. Well, z, you will probably be surprised to read that I agree in principle. Simply handing out benefits has a point of diminishing returns.
      Venezuela is a prime example. The oil revenues were transferred to the poor with no investment in infrastructure like schools and health clinics etc. and the price of oil goes down, boom, back where you started.

      Now that isn't to say the social welfare state is necessarily harmful. Take education, right now you have enormous personal debt and federal expense due to "for profit" colleges. They are a scam which depress growth and increase the deficit as well as generating enormous personal debt.

      So they seem ripe for regulation but the right simply despises regulation. No go.

      What about free community college? We avoid the crippling personal debt, the Federal expenditure wouldn't be much more than we are wasting on loans to for profits and if we gave a damn the educational experience could be better.

      I don't have an exact mechanism to make it work but what I am trying to do is point out that there are ways to make this work.

      Free childcare? The Europeans have been doing it and have a better workforce for it. Just saying that America is being plagued by truly rigid thinking and we might want to look at alternatives because the status quo ain't working and more tinkle down supply side nonsense ain't EVER going to work.

      Delete
    4. SF,
      It is acceptable that interest on our national debt is 6% and growing?

      It. Is. Not.

      This is a bi-partisan problem that borders on criminal irresponsibility.

      Absolutely!

      Delete
    5. Duck,
      What about free community college?

      Free community college will result in even more erosion of the standards of education.

      You know what? College tuition today wouldn't be so high if all these government loans were not available.

      The next big bubble to burst? College graduates with huge loans will default. This default is already in sight -- and will become a tsunami.

      Delete
    6. Chitty Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

      Chitty Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

      Chitty Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

      Oh, Ducky!



      Chitty Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

      We love you and our pretty
      
Chitty Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
      
Loves you too

      

High, low, anywhere we go

      On Chitty Chitty we depend
      
Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
      

Our fine four fendered friend
      Bang Bang, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

      Our fine four fendered friend

      

Your sleek as a thoroughbred
      Your seats are a feather bed

      You turn everybody's head today

      

We'll glide on our motor trip
      
With pride in our ownership

      The envy of all we survey



      Oh, Chitty, you Chitty, pretty Chitty Bang Bang
      
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang we love you

      And Chitty our Chitty, pretty Chitty Bang Bang

      Chitty Chitty Bang Bang loves us and Ducky to

o

      High Chitty, low Chitty
      
Anywhere we go

      On Chitty Chitty we depend.


      ________ The End ________

      Delete
    7. Ducky, the problem is COSTS....how to bring down the cost of childcare, the cost of college. The huge and ridiculous costs of healthcare...$25 for a couple of Qu-Tips...$10 for a six pack of Cokes if you order them from the hospital when you're in overnight. To say nothing of things like my having surgery on a bad cut on my hand in Paris which only cost $800. Imagine what a day in the hospital, including minor surgery HERE would cost?

      I also believe that people need to pay for them to get much benefit, as AOW suggests...

      Free everything is not in our American lexicon; it's against self-reliance, it's against the joy of helping others out of the goodness of our hearts and not by being taxed to death.

      There IS no easy fix for kids having huge debt when they get out of college but, gee, generations have done it previous to this, haven't they.

      People need to stop yelling at each other, suggesting things like you do nearly every day, exaggerating as if Republicans want NO regulations on ANYTHING, and start talking sensibly and with civility....
      till then....we're sinking because we can't afford much more.

      Delete
    8. I'm sick and tired of hearing the word "free" in the context that anything of value can be provided at no cost. Anyone who believes otherwise is a complete fool. I wonder what % of the graph, presented above, consists of "free" stuff? Bernie Sanders and his merry band of idiots should be deported!

      Delete
    9. I partially agree with you, AOW.

      Yes, education has become an industry in America and highly profitable. The loan industry is cleaning up aided by the Bankruptcy bill which both guarantees loans and prevents them from being discharged in bankruptcy.
      Even the government makes money off student loans. Young voters don't seem to be aware that Hillary was a force, along with Biden, pushing for the bill but that's for another time.

      So how do we dismantle this behemoth?
      Rather than reforming higher education we are pushing the for profit model in secondary schools.

      Sanders isn't offering anything comprehensive and I don't think there is anyone around to challenge the education industry. Too much profit.

      Delete
    10. @Z, people need to stop yelling at each other.
      ---------
      Yes, I believe that.

      Freethinke with his pithy little lyrics is a good example of a passive aggressive screamer.

      How to reduce costs when government has been bought and paid for and is subsidizing major industries?
      I don't know. I truly don't.

      I'd start by realizing we have to squeeze out the lobbyist influence (yeah, easy for me to say, I know) and settle down and listen to each other. We generally want the same things.

      Delete
    11. Duck,
      Freethinke with his pithy little lyrics is a good example of a passive aggressive screamer.

      Um, no. Such lyrics have long been a polite way to make points that the need to be made without going ballistic.

      Delete
    12. Duck,
      So how do we dismantle this behemoth?

      The governmental bureaucracy's intervention in doing that would result in another behemoth. In fact, we're already seen that with certain governmental interventions in education: NCLB, Common Core (Don't kid yourself that Common Core doesn't have close ties to both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party).

      Delete
    13. The parenthetical statement is a fact which I've discovered outside web or blogosphere information. I've discovered that information via a personal connection. The intelligentsia of both political parties are closely involved with the directors and originators of Common Core. They all run in the same social circles and share the same educational circles if you check backgrounds.

      Delete
    14. Jon,
      I'm sick and tired of hearing the word "free" in the context that anything of value can be provided at no cost.

      Makes you wanna puke, don't it?

      Delete
  7. I feel sorry, indeed, for our POSTERITY, but frankly my POSTERIOR has been aching badly for a very long time already. Hasn't yours?

    ReplyDelete
  8. Cankles Von Hildabeast, can't do snything wrong in the eyes of the Liberturds. And yet whatever and whenever Donald Trump says anything these same Liberturds jump all over him as if HE were the Socoalists as they are

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "my POSTERIOR has been aching badly for a very long time already. Hasn't yours?"

      Yes, the past 7 years of B.O. have been tantamount to a perpetual colonoscopy!

      Delete
    2. What our darling widdle Ducky needs is a case of VANISHING CREAM.

      };^)>

      Delete
  9. Don't worry. Trump's gonna print more money.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's the American Way! Preached to us by both parties. That flaming-haired blowtorch is looking more and more establishmentarian every day!

      Delete
    2. Thorvald,
      It's the American Way! Preached to us by both parties.

      Yes.

      There are no innocent parties in this.

      Delete
    3. The main disagreement between the naught-right and the neocons is the neoconservative aim to abolish the welfare state ;)

      Delete
    4. The only reason that the neocons are anti-welfare is that it takes money out of their pockets that can't be invested in third world economies.

      Delete
    5. Talk about choking on gnats. All up on the ramparts for the welfare state because America gives away 0.2% of its GDP to foreign countries lol

      Delete
  10. Just wait until Donald Trump starts up the presses, and begins fueling dollars into TV and other media with non-stop 'Crooked Hillary' coverage, morning, noon and night.

    It will be non-stop, and the material for all of these ads is almost never ending, to include:


    Whitewater scandal, remember Webb Hubble and the boys?
    Vince Foster's mysterious death, and Hillary's goons cleansing the office prior to arrival of investigators.
    Travelgate, with the sacking of the entire staff of the White House travel office, since Hillary 'needed those slots.'
    Rose Law firm records, which mysteriously were found on a table in one of the hallways of the West Wing.
    Bimbo eruptions, where Hillary viciously attacked the accusers of her serial philandering hubby, Bubba, destroying virtually all of these women's lives as they had known them.
    Cattle futures, where Hillary invested a measly $1,000 bucks and miraculously cashed in $100,000.
    Lying about being named after Sir Edmond Hillary, who became famous for being the first to scale Mt. Everest in Nepal. The glitch here was that Sir Edmond Hillary was unknown prior to this feat, and Hillary Clinton was born BEFORE the Everest Climb by Sir Edmond.
    Hillary coming under sniper fire in Bosnia, when this clearly did not happen.
    Let's not forget Hillary's close ties to Saul Alinsky, I would bet The Donald has something to say about that.
    How about Hillary and Bill looting the White House after they vacated in 2000? Swiping White House china, furniture and about everything that wasn't bolted to the floor?
    Makes sense that they would loot the White House, since Hillary claimed that when they left the White House, they 'were dead broke.'
    Donald Trump should have a field day with all of this material to work with over the course of the next 6 months. And we will all be watching it 24 hours a day, in ad after ad of those negative campaign spots. You know the ones, they are usually black and white, with the grave narration of (fill in Hillary's skulduggery and malfeasance here), and the menacing cello sound track in the background.

    Why the rest of the Old Guard GOP Republicans haven't been doing this since Hillary came into the national spotlight with her evil ways, that is a mystery to us all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But Donald said he would start up the presses, and begin fueling dollars to pay off debt.
      Doesn't help much.

      Delete
    2. As long as the economy grows faster than the debt you have no need to print money.
      The issue we have is that growth is slowing and if Federal spending drops then growth slows more. That becomes unsustainable.

      So rather than dosing us with more tinkle down economics and banking industry accounting shenanigans we should demand politicians get back to talking about the reasons the economy isn't growing.

      That will result in more tax cuts for the upper few percent who already have more money than they can spend (although the fine art and Hampton real estate sectors will inflate like crazy). But according to the right they will have bundles of money and in the face of no demand Kapital will just go out and randomly create jobs. Not likely.

      As has been presented her, time for a paradigm shift. Time for supply side to get kicked to the curb.

      Delete
  11. Oh! Ha Haw Haw Haw!

    Those are old lies and we've already addressed all of that. It is time to move forward and defeat the Right Wing Conspiracy.

    ReplyDelete
  12. AOW, it's so great to have someone like you here to tell it as it is.
    With the likes of those duches like we have at the PE blog, and the creeps like Ducky,
    It's good to have someone with sanity like you around.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Off topic, but here is an interesting link from war drum banger Max Boot sniveling about how he's voting for Hillary.

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-boot-republicans-in-exile-20160508-story.html

    One positive about Trump: He is flushing the warmongers from the Republican party and sending them back to their natural home in Hillary's Democrat party.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Boot is just a cheap pimp looking for some table scraps from the incoming Clinton administration.

      His foreign policy pronouncements have been moronic but the little pimp is a solid political animal.

      I'm waiting for Elliot Abrams.

      Delete
    2. Ducky,

      We've got to give El Donaldo some credit. He's forcing the political whores to lay their cards on the table.

      DC is spilling over with cheap pimps, and the dirty little secret being revealed is that they know no ideology.

      Delete
    3. @Silverfiddle --- and the dirty little secret being revealed is that they know no ideology.
      ------
      Point well taken

      Delete
  14. Your graph is flawed because it does not take into account the inflation (see http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. From the source you mentioned:

      As you can see, except for a rise at the end of World War II, the Debt remained remarkably constant for nearly forty years when inflationary forces are taken into account. After 1983 however, with the notable exception of the Fiscal Years ending in September of 2000 and 2001, the trend has been upward even when inflation is taken into account.

      Delete
    2. You are perfectly right, but your graph is still flawed if it doesn't take into account the inflation. A better graph would have been the one shown in the source I mentioned. There is really a steep rise but less evident than with the one you prefered to show. If you want to be credible the first step is to avoid to lie to yourself. With the correct graph your demonstration is almost the same, but more correct.

      Delete
    3. Géd,
      1. The objective of this blog is promote discussion. And you and I are indeed discussing the topic.

      2. When our media and our politicians et al speak of the topic of America's national debt and national deficit, those entities typically speak of the figures without blabbing about inflation.

      3. My blog, my property, my preferences.

      Delete
    4. 1. Agreed.

      2. You are not obliged to mimic bad habits.

      3. See point 1 above.

      Delete
  15. Oh yea. I'd hate to be a kid today.

    Part 2. Imagine this reality combined with the fact that things seem to be going Ok in America. If we didn't have such a healthy economic system - Capitalism - we'd already be dead. What does it say about America that things are fairly normal and balanced with this ***** going on?

    Some group of folks a few hundred years ago put together one hell of a country. Stunning that now so many want to tear it apart thinking that will make it better. Like being surrounded by zombies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kid,
      The reasons that now so many want to tear it apart are several. This reaction has been at least 50 years in the making, and we're seeing it from those all along the political spectrum. Paradigm shift?

      Delete
  16. SF,
    Are we witnessing the remaking of both political parties (but especially the GOP)?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I believe we are. I am surprised how badly the Democrat revolution is lagging that of the GOP, but their crack-up is coming.

      Delete
    2. Silverfiddle, call in tomorrow.

      We are going to continue that conversation.
      I don't believe the Dems are lagging as much as you perceive.

      Delete
    3. Duck,
      I take it that you plan to be with WC and me tomorrow. I can't check my email today. Late working hours.

      Delete
    4. Correct, AOW, I'll be calling at 3:00 EDT.

      For Silverfiddle, did you notice that Her Nibs came out in favor of Medicare buy in? What ever you think of the policy you can't deny that she is feeling some heat from Sanders.

      Delete
    5. Bernie's definitely pulling her left. He could help redefine/clarify Democratic stances, but its not going to help Hellary. The young Sanders supporters will still find her repugnant, and the broad middle may find all her slipping and sliding left and right a little too slithery.

      Unfortunately, I can't call in. I just got back from California and I have too much to make up at work.

      Delete

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