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Tuesday, September 15, 2015

Murder Charges For Hazing?

Two quick links before I dash off to work:

1.  37 Pi Delta Psi fraternity brothers charged in death of Michael Deng

2.  5 Face Murder Charges In Hazing Death Of Baruch College Student

Read about the fraternity Pi Delta Psi HERE and HERE.

Your thoughts on the charges filed?


  1. Yes. Prosecute the sadistic little rodents.

    I have never understood fraternities, especially their homosexual sado-masochistic rituals. Why any parent would allow their kids to pay good money to join such an organization is beyond me.

    1. And if a US Marine dies in training, how far up the chain of command should the murder charges go?

    2. apples and oranges

      You're way too smart for that, so I assume that was a Socratic entre to some larger point?

    3. Nope.

      In both cases an innocent is dead. The only difference is "why". You want to punish in one case, and not the other. I see them both as tragedies of the Agoge which is life.

    4. Thersites:

      You are profoundly mistaken. "Why" comes up all the time in homicide cases, and it often means the difference between an unintentional accident, to manslaugter, to capital murder.

      Military training deaths happen after careful medical screening, training protocols and lots of safety regulations, and they happen in pursuit of the noble goal of training people for real-life life and death situation, preparing them to increase their odds of coming home alive with all their limbs.

      The fraternity case involved a gaggle of homosexual sado-masochist ass paddlers chasing and harrying a young man who just graduated from high school.

      There is no comparison.

    5. Sure there is. Do you believe that the frat boys set out to intentionally harm or kill their "pledge"? Do you believe that Marines set out to intentionally harm or kill their "recruits". Because in the latter case... they really do.

    6. Joe,
      I must agree that intent matters.

      Still, there is something unsettling about what fraternity hazings have become. A cycle of some sort: "Thus and such happened to me when I was a pledge, so I'm going to do something even worse ito these new pledges who are at my mercy"?

    7. The US military isn't the only organization in the world that needs to build "teams". All organizations do it. To believe that they don't in civilian life, is a mistake. The fraternity experience is a good one for later life. No, your boss isn't going to "paddle" you. But chances are pretty good that at some point in your career one will attempt at some point to publically degrade you. And its good to know how to handle it. And how to pay him back.


    8. Pain, displeasure, and the sharing of "obscenity" is a necessity in a well rounded team building exercise

    9. .for it is not logic that holds a unit together. Its "SuperEgo"... unwritten rules... and knoweldge of permissible rule breaking that forge the bonds of comradery.

    10. case in point...


    11. The Marine Corps "set out to intentionally harm or kill their "recruits?"

      You're unhinged.

      Go ahead and send your kids to the spoiled brat sociopath club. I've got better ways to spend my money, and there are better ways for young adults to learn life lessons than at the hands of twisted freaks barely older than themselves.

    12. They don't intentionally send them into war zones, knowing that many will be killed? Who knew?

    13. Titan: You better tighten up your logic.

      Sending someone into a war zone does not equal "set out to intentionally harm or kill their "recruits"

      Indeed many people come back unscathed from war. You should get out and meet some of them.

    14. When you're the "diversion" preceding the main attack, you are being sent out to get killed, nobody's got your "safety" in mind. Ask the boys who dies on Pork Chop Hill how they felt....

    15. Gotta give you credit, Farmer, dying for your country is not nearly as noble as taking an ass paddling from a sex-crazed fellow teen who masks his inferiority by masochistic predations...

  2. SF + 1
    3rd degree murder charges are voluntary manslaughter. Not calling help for an hour? One suspects alcohol was involved, and maybe shielding a particular member, getting him off the scene.

    1. Yes, the not calling for help and the cover up are damning. No doubt about that!

      Now, why did they think that they could get away with doing those things?

  3. Callous disregard for life. And it resulted in a death. I believe a voluntary murder charge is in order.

    You know my husband's story, AOW. New fraternity pledge, kidnapped by his "brothers" and taken to a "party". The hazing ritual continued until an ambulance had to be called and the members all slunk home. My spouse has spent a life confined to a wheelchair because of their callous disregard for life and risk-taking alcohol-fueled hazing. He did not ask for this. They dished it out, heaped it on, and practically wrapped him in a funeral shroud before it was all over. The bruising on his face which ran from forehead to his lower cheeks healed. The spinal cord injury was permanent.

    Did the fraternity (banned for a season from their campus) give a flip about my husband, manage to pull off a fund-raiser, or for that matter, ever catch up with my husband to see what a miserable mess they made of his life? Of course not.

    The fraternity was Tau Kappa Epsilon. Perhaps they have forgotten my husband's name? Perhaps they have forgotten their part, in what they did one dark night outside of Stephen F. Austin State University?

    1. Anybody criminally indicted? Would it have helped in his recovery?

    2. Anonymous,
      I understand that your husband was kidnapped.

      Was that the situation with Michael Deng?

    3. Anonymous,
      Did the fraternity (banned for a season from their campus) give a flip about my husband, manage to pull off a fund-raiser, or for that matter, ever catch up with my husband to see what a miserable mess they made of his life? Of course not.

      Did the college administration do anything?

  4. Did Michael Deng know how dangerous fraternity hazings can be?

    If not, WHY not?

  5. Questions...

    1. How much responsibility does Baruch College have in Michael Deng's death?

    2. Was what happened with Michael Deng totally I predictable -- that is, had the fraternity been given a pass before? Incrementally, I mean.

  6. SF typed in:

    I have never understood fraternities,


    According to Wikipedia (Certainly not a definitive source):

    Hazing is often prohibited by law and may comprise either physical or psychological abuse. It may also include nudity and/or sexually based offences. Hazing is known to be illegal in the U.S and most countries.

    Illegal? It's illegal? Since when?

    If that is so, then any participation in hazing is against the law. Or something.

    Back when I was in college -- in the Stone Age -- the fraternity rushes, or whatever they were called, were goofy things. As far as I know, anyway.

  7. I don't see the date on this link, but the material is interesting:

    Dangers of Fraternity Hazing.


    ...It is difficult to pinpoint an exact number of hazing deaths because the practice is secretive and might appear to be suicide, or a result of binge drinking, however many individuals each year are hurt or killed as a result of hazing. Approximately 130 individuals were injured or killed as a result of hazing from 1923-1980, although the real numbers are much higher especially in the 90s’ and 2000s. The real numbers are simply hard to come up with, but it happens more than fraternities would like to admit. However, hazing has been around for at least a century and while there is a lot of talk about outlawing hazing and many states have anti-hazing laws, fraternities continue to dish out this torture treatment to pledges.

    Unfortunately, hazing continues despite many deaths and injuries nationwide, not to mention fines, chapters being shut down and even criminal charges as well as the 35 states that have anti-hazing laws. The reason is that pledges must pay a price to join the fraternity and as long as there are members in the fraternity that experienced hazing in order to join they will expect all others to experience the same. If not, the bond of the brotherhood will be weakened and the fraternity will lose its esteem. That is the thought process at least of brothers in college fraternities across the nation. Also, while many college administrations have certain rules regarding hazing they do not enforce them or else are completely oblivious to what happens during pledge season each year and the injuries, both physical and psychological, that occur each year.

    Pledges should also be completely aware of what they are getting themselves into....

    More at the above link.

  8. I blame the parents. Without their monetary support, fraternities would be a thing of the past.

    I also blame university administrators who foster an "anything-goes" atmosphere because they want the money. A top 50 in the Party School ratings is a financial boon.

    These are groups of petty little sickos who probably enjoyed torturing animals as a child. There is no place for it in the university.

    Having said that, I cop to participating in a lot of hazing in the military, and it used to be expected, not so much anymore outside of the combat arms.

    1. SF,
      university administrators who foster an "anything-goes" atmosphere because they want the money

      I think that's the primary factor.

      Yes, parents have responsibility, too. But if stories of hazing horrors are suppressed -- and I think that they have been -- parents do not know the full extent of what's going on and automatically think that hazings today are like the hazings that dads themselves endured some decades earlier.

      I also note that Pi Delta Psi is an all-Chinese fraternity. Cultural differences?

  9. Totally valid charges. Put em away. End.

  10. I've known fraternity men and sorority women who've benefited in good ways from their Greek associations....but I think those days are gone. It was a closeness, a brother/sisterhood, good connections, etc. Sure, they probably hazed a little and drank, but everything's worse today, so why shouldn't the Greek Houses?
    My own dad's fraternity, Alpha Tau Omega, was shut down on Rensselaer's campus for 'who knows what?' years after he'd graduated...it's back now, but clearly, this bad stuff isn't new.
    If people are dying, this has to stop. I think it's a sign of the times...yet another sign of these awful times.

    1. Z,
      yet another sign of these awful times

      Moral compasses are skewed.

  11. I know Navy Chiefs have to lighten up on initiation.
    Not probably a good thing.

  12. Z mentioned fraternities' good connections. Check out THIS LIST of notable Tekes, members of Tau Kappa Epsilon, the fraternity mentioned by anonymous above and a fraternity on the campus of the university I attended.

  13. Obama's tweet starts with "Cool Clock".
    What's cool about it that he'd know about at that time?


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