Fruits of the Arab spring: U.S. Libyan Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, one of the first Americans on the ground in Benghazi and a man who was trying to help Libya lay the foundations for a free nation, and three other embassy staff assassinated in Libya when the U.S. consulate was attacked.
Some basic information about the 1979 Iranian Revolution
Just yesterday, on the eleventh anniversary of 9/11, the United States Embassy apologized for freedom of expression after the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, Egypt, was overrun, the American flag taken down, and the black flag of jihad raised.
Unreal. Once again, just when I think this administration cannot become any more outrageous!
ReplyDeleteObama has created quite the precedent of America bowing to Islamists!
I know what my response would have been...
I will state absolutely that this is an extremist al-Qaeda splinter trying to reconstitute its presence and they absolutely WANT a military response.
ReplyDeleteTerry Jones managed to give a pretext but radicals have been looking for an excuse.
Remember the douche bags who are running Terry Jones and the AL-Qaeda douche bags need each other.
Look for the tension between Copts and extremists to heat up thanks to that Copt idiot in America who was in with Jones. A military response is exactly what Al-Qaeda WANTS.
What should the US do in response to these attacks, Ducky?
ReplyDelete@Ducky: I'm thinking about the douche bags running our government. The ones who lost Egypt and Libya in the first place.
ReplyDelete"Many of the people here haven't even seen the movie," said Mostafa Nageh, a youth who attended the protest. "Most people came out to protest just because they heard that a video insulting the prophet was made in the U.S."
ReplyDeleteThis is the attitude of the general public over there in all those Islamic countries. Islam is a religion of hatred, and hatred must have it's constant supply of targets. We should be grateful that Islam split off into different sects long ago, as that keeps them hating each other as much as hating the rest of us.
I personally think that keeping embassies in any Islamic country is just plain stupid, just as stupid as allowing mosques to be built here and allowing muslimes to reside here. I become more against freedom of religion every day. We need to outlaw Islam in the United States, along with any other "faith" that advocates any sort of penalty for any form of supposed blasphemy. Islam has to go.
ReplyDeleteJohn Bolton is on local talk radio right now in DC and he's tearing zippy a new one on these attacks and on zippy's refusal to meet with Netanyahu. He's is exactly right on target. This is the same John Bolton who was our UN Ambassador. By the way, were our Sec of State... what's her name! Take note, Mitt. listen to John Bolton. He should be Secretary of State.
Empty chair alert! Let's hope that our Jewish friends finally get wise to Obama, and cost him the Jewish votes.
I just finished listening to Hillary Clinton's statement.
ReplyDeleteShe says the government is NOT responsible for the attack in Cairo and Benghazi. She is lying.
The government encourages these attacks; it gives The Muslim Brotherhood plausible deniability, and it enables The Muslim Brotherhood to effect anti-American policy while continuing to receive FOUR BILLION DOLLARS annually from the US government.
Hillary Clinton's negligence and incompetence is responsible for these attacks. She is guilty of manslaughter. She should be charged accordingly.
As the great Yogu Berra once said: "It's deja vu all over again." Plus once agian we have this administration, via the Ambassador to Egypt, apologizing for America. What else could we expect from Obama and Company?
ReplyDeleteIt's time to cut aid to Egypt. It's their job to police their capital and insure that all the embassies are protected.
ReplyDeleteWhile we're talking about cutting aid, we should support Rand Paul's initiative to cut aid to Pakistan. They have tortured the hero who helped us get Osama.
Sam has written on this in the past. The problem is an incoherent foreign policy effectuated by incompetent diplomats and an inept cabinet secretary. While the Obama administration plays games, real people die. I am amazed he has the audacity to show his face on camera; or Hillary Clinton either, for that matter.
ReplyDeleteIt should be clear that this was a coordinated Al Queda attack. And it was an attack that was only made possible because of the incompetence of the Obama Administration.
ReplyDeleteHad we not toppled Mubarak, this would NEVER have happened in Egypt. And in Libya, the fact that our diplomatic personnel were so clearly exposed to the danger is a crime in itself.
As I said in my post yesterday, this is just the first bitter taste from the cup of consequences of Obama's failed foreign policy. There are likely to be more and worse to come.
"Nostradumbass said:
ReplyDeleteI will state absolutely that this is an extremist al-Qaeda splinter trying to reconstitute its presence and they absolutely WANT a military response.
Notice how Duncy acts as an apologist - "extremist al-Qaeda splinter", as is there is a non-extremist faction or its just a very small "splinter" group". How very PC of you, you waste of skin and oxygen.
Terry Jones managed to give a pretext but radicals have been looking for an excuse.
Duh!
Remember the douche bags who are running Terry Jones and the AL-Qaeda douche bags need each other.
According to you, we're all followers of Terry Jones and WE need al-Qaeda.
Go diddle yourself.
Look for the tension between Copts and extremists to heat up thanks to that Copt idiot in America who was in with Jones.
Because, you know, like, the Copts have no legitimate grievance for their maltreatment at Muslim hands. Just turn the other cheek!
What does it matter if your family has been practicing Christianity and lived in Egypt centuries before Mohammed the pedophile was born. Christians just need to suck it up.
Right Ducky?
military response is exactly what Al-Qaeda WANTS.
In the spirit of socialist appeasement, lets give them "exactly" what they want, in trumps!
"as will abusive language and vulgarities."
ReplyDeleteDoesn't that depend on what parties are abused?
Obama sucks.
Socialism sucks.
China sucks.
The Liberal Left sucks.
and so on. See? It matters. ;-)
Don't mind me, I just like to see statements properly qualified.
Islam sucks most of all and it's on that subject that I offer my next comment.
Freedom of religion has become overvalued and as a direct result, over priced. We can't afford it any longer.
ReplyDeleteAs long as we maintain as sacred the value of Freedom of Religion, Islam will have free rein to assault us from within. WE MUST outlaw Islam, and the only way we really have to do that is to curtail freedom of religion.
We have to set legal limits on what religions may preach and what they may do as organized entities and private sects, that are far more stringent than any laws we have now.
@Black Sheep well maybe, the problem is that can back-fire and allow real persecution of every religion. The thing is, freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom to break the law- just like Mormons can't practice the part of their faith saying they can have multipule wives. Islam seems to forget this- as murder, abuse and terrorism are all against the law, and they should be charged for that regardless of their faith.
ReplyDeleteOn-topic(er)
WELL, apologizing doesn't do anything now does it. We apologize after an extremely insulting act is done to us (grr), and the day later get re-paid by this. Wow. When will BO (or Americans) learn- unless he doesn't care. Which is likely. How many times will we ignore the signs, or try to work with a culture that is by modern standards barbaric?
-Wildstar
Black Sheep.
ReplyDeleteI believe not dealing with Islam in the name of "freedom of religion" is pure sophistry.
The people that do this would have no problem destroying and executing the Thugee of India that robbed and strangled their victims in the name of Kali, the Hindu god of creation and destruction or the Aztecs who cut the hearts from their living sacrifices in the name of their religion.
All your freedoms are limited by your infringement of the freedom of someone else. i.e. your freedom to swing your fist ends at my nose.
The attack of our embassies and murder of our Marine guards and ambassador can be considered casus belli.
"Had we not toppled Mubarak, this would NEVER have happened in Egypt."
ReplyDeleteThis is a popular meme, but I have yet to see a shred of substantiation, or a plausible assessment of what we could [or should] have done in the face of a population rising up against a tyrant.
That said, retribution for these events should exercise tactical patience, use thoughtful planning....and be defined with unrelenting and overwhelming force.
@Sam -- What should the US do in response to these attacks, Ducky?
ReplyDelete------
Exactly what they have been doing. Target the extremists responsible and eliminate them with as little collateral damage as possible.
There is an upside to this tragedy.
1. There was also an attack in Tunisia and the Tunisian police stopped it short o the embassy.
2. Libyan security forces countered the thugs, got Americans to safety and dragged the ambassadors body to safety and a hospital (was he still alive?)
3. The Egyptian attack was pretty mild. The thugs were hesitant to attack the embassy proper.
We have responded with a blanket condemnation of Muslims and a complete failure to recognize the MB is not in charge in Libya. The former is an indicator of the fringe right's foreign policy deficiency.
Then there is Governor Olympics doubling down on his initial stupidity. Expect him to get hammered hard as a complete bullethead.
What to do? Continue diminishing Al-Qaeda as we have been doing. This latest though tragic is a pretty anemic attack.
Or we can do it the Romney and Bibi the Bobo way and lob a few hot ones at Iran. The fringe right s capable of that level of blunder.
@Ducky - "Libyan security forces countered the thugs, got Americans to safety and dragged the ambassadors body to safety and a hospital (was he still alive?)"
ReplyDeleteReporting is still early and unreliable, but the story I'm getting is that local national security escorted embassy personnel to safety, then promptly directed the mob to where they were hiding.
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ReplyDeleteStill waiting for some demonstration of your brilliance, Ducky ... otherwise, shut your foolish mouth.
ReplyDeleteI don’t know whether Mike’s claim is a popular meme, but I know that President Obama set into motion this so-called Arab Spring culminating in the elimination of a head of state who was a long-term ally.
Perhaps it’s just me, but tossing an ally under the bus doesn’t appear sage. Neither is an off-hand conclusion Mubarak was a dictator. He may well have been a dictator, but I daresay Coptic Christians were far more secure under Mubarak than they have been under The Muslim Brotherhood, or any of its several extremist surrogates.
US diplomatic credibility is presently in a deep spiral. We may begin to understand this after we acknowledge how inept our foreign policy has been, and remains, under Barack Obama. I shall never understand what prompted an American ambassador to apologize to extremists who attacked sovereign American property. It did not take long for this statement, issued on of all days 11 September 2012, to incite other sand monkeys.
Average citizens sitting home may not see Obama’s incompetence as a concern; they may see it as problematic when we’re shipping their sons and daughters off to die yet another war created by Washington imbeciles.
@Sam - It seems to be a popular meme on the right. And though it's an interesting theory to state that Obama set the 'Arab Spring' in motion, it doesn't appear that he had any hand in the domestic uprisings, or any ties with Mohammed Bouazizi.
ReplyDeleteThere is more of a case to tie the Bush Administration's 'Freedom Agenda'. One must always be careful of what one wishes for.
Ducky, let me apologize to you. I did not see your lengthy response above until just now. I will get back to you on this.
ReplyDeleteThe last U.S. ambassador killed in the line of duty was Adolphy Dubs, who was killed in Afghanistan in 1979.
ReplyDeleteIf you guys are all done for a few minutes....
ReplyDeleteCurtailing freedom of religion means outlawing any religion that promotes any sort of violence, as Islam clearlly does, or is intolerant of other ways of life, as Islam clearly is, and DON'T tell me this can't be done, as the above two conditions perfectly describe the Hells Angels MC Club, which HAS been outlawed. If one group of people can be outlawed in America, so can another.
I'm not sure if you'd noticed, but the Hell's Angels aren't a religion... organized or not.
ReplyDeleteThere is zero Constitutional authority to outlaw and criminalize any religion. Actions - all day long; beliefs - never...and be thankful for it.
Duck,
ReplyDeleteI deleted your comment of September 12, 2012 4:40:00 PM EDT because of the vulgarity contained therein.
I've been at work all day and am just now getting back onto the web.
ReplyDeleteI read somewhere that this attack was planned well in advance.
DOES ANYBODY YET KNOW HOW FAR IN ADVANCE?
Black Sheep,
ReplyDelete"as will abusive language and vulgarities."
Doesn't that depend on what parties are abused?
To a point, yes.
Also remember that administrators who can delete comments are sporadically available.
Also, my property, my rules.
There may very well be a case for diplomatic incompetence, particularly if you believe Time Magazine’s Stephen Sotloff, who wrote, “In hindsight, many ill omens preceded Tuesday night’s carnage at the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi.”
ReplyDeleteSotloff cited a bombing last May, targeting UN official Ian Martin; in June, an RPG fired at the British Ambassador. Another bomb in June exploded outside the US Consulate. There were several organized protests. The United States does have a rather sophisticated intelligence network; we are either not using it, or our (perceived) incompetence goes much deeper than anyone imagined. I personally do not see this as spontaneous combustion. The logistics entailed suggests an attacked planned and orchestrated in advance.
Inasmuch as the Arab Spring began after Obama’s remarks in Cairo, which Obama himself titled “A New Beginning,” a speech during which the president apologized for previous US policy as he announced his own (appeasement) Middle East policy, I think we can place Arab Spring at his feet more than any other president; but then I suppose it is possible to sustain the inanity by assigning some responsibility to Eisenhower and even John Adams.
I don’t understand the handwringing over the death of this Ambassador; I don’t see similar demonstrations in response to the death or injury of our troops. Is this guy’s life in some way more precious? If anyone thinks that (and I’m certain that is the view among the elites), they are sadly mistaken.
And thank you for confirming what I've thought of your *contributions*.
ReplyDeleteWhen one has no defensible argument, one reverts to juvenile tantrums.
Jason,
ReplyDeleteIt's time to cut aid to Egypt. It's their job to police their capital and insure that all the embassies are protected.
Agreed.
I'll go a step further. We should have only "cyber embassies" if our embassies cannot be adequately protected.
Ambassador Stevens, age 52, was a career diplomat. He likely "knew what was what." All reports I have read so far indicate that he was not idiot.
He was trying to help the cause of freedom in Libya.
Now, Ambassador Stevens is dead.
Futility, futility, futility!
At this moment, I think of our embassy personnel who were slain. I think of their families.
Duck,
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't be too quick to blame Terry Jones. That aspect of the stories we're reading today may be a pretext.
Ducky, are you suggesting that by targeting the extremists responsible, that we targeted “non-extremists” in the past? Beyond the unfortunate aspects of warfare, I don’t see how we can completely avoid death or injury to innocents. Isn’t this part of the price we pay for our failure to resolve our differences diplomatically?
ReplyDeleteIt is good Tunisians stopped an attack before it got started; this is the responsibility of host nations. We do that for foreign embassies here in the USA, and I think we have a right to expect that from foreign nations, as well.
I believe you are substantially in error when you suggest that Tripoli and Cairo had nothing whatever to do with these attacks. It tells me that you are close-minded to obvious facts: The Muslim Brotherhood have used, continue to use, and will use in the future, surrogates to “punish” Americans for their refusal to embrace Islam.
Actually, “condemnations” and statements of outrage mean absolutely nothing in the Muslim world. Well, I take that back. It does mean one thing: weakness. Arab culture views weakness as an opportunity to attack. I will not be surprised to see more of these in the future.
Your chastisements of Romney aren’t new, but I find them offensive and petty. Here’s an idea: when you have accomplished in your life even a small percentage of what Romney has achieved, then you can make up nauseous epithets and spread them around. Until then, try this on: grow up.
Juvenile tantrums. You noticed? How, did I leave my rubber ducky all covered in slobber on the floor in my fit of rage? Got anything else?
ReplyDeleteNope. Not unless you want to illuminate us as to how the Hell's Angels were targeted for a belief system, rather than their criminal actions...or how the Constitution provides a foundation for making a similar case against Islam.
ReplyDeleteUntil then...you're background noise.
I've been blogging and leaving comments for over 7 years now, so in blogging years that makes about 450 years old. Which is close.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I can't recall all the times that some troll has latched onto a blog and started stirring the pot, just to see how many people he or she can get all pissed off and riled up.
I think that's what we have here. I believe that 3 commentors here are all the same troll. I bet most of you can figure out which 3 I mean without much trouble.
The site Admin can easily check that for you. Hope your not too disappointed.
ReplyDeleteIt's also instructive that when asked to defend your position, you have decided that you cannot. Signature hallmark of a troll.
Good job outing yourself.
Heh heh heh, until then you're background noise, heh heh heh, that oughta get him. Heh heh heh.
ReplyDeleteLOL what was that about tantrums? Do you understand the word "sophomoric"?
Okay. You can go back to being Ducky or Liberalman now. We're done.
ReplyDeleteHmmmm....No Record of Intel Briefings for Obama Week Before Embassy Attacks
ReplyDeleteConstitutional Insurgent @ Black Sheep,
ReplyDeleteUntil then...you're background noise.
Ahem. Only a blog administrator here determines that.
Thanks.
one of the people killed at our embassy in Libya was a gamer and told his friends in a gaming forum just a few hours before he died that he saw one of the Libyan government embassy guards taking pictures of the place and expressed the fear that he might be dead soon. As he was a few hours later.
ReplyDeleteObviously, that guard taking pics had a very ominous portent for him. Terrorists do take pictures of their pending targets. These attacks were a joint effort of the Libyan and Egyptian governments, I know that's not much evidence but you know there's a lot more out there. I wouldn't be surprised if Obastard knew this was coming.
Sorry AoW - I should have tacked on "to me".
ReplyDeleteConstitutional Insurgent,
ReplyDeleteAcknowledged.
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ReplyDeleteDebbie,
ReplyDeleteI got a look at the images a little while ago. Hideous.
It is my understanding that the attackers took those photos.
Sand monkeys?
ReplyDeleteClassy Sam. Damn you are a bigot.
And how did you become an expert on the MB? Really, let us know or are you just blowing it out your butt as you do when you try to play Constitutional scholar?
It remains. There was nothing lacking in Obama's or Clinton's statement about the attacks.
And not allowing that bullethead Bibi to launch an attack on Iran is hardly "throwing an ally under the bus"(regardless how useless the said ally may be). Children need to be disciplined at times.
Black Sheep,
ReplyDeleteDucky and liberaltwit are different people and I'm sure that neither one is Constitutional Insurgent.
Nostradumbass (Ducky,)and I have a history that goes back for years.
Liberaltwit is just a cut and paste troll that used to call itself something else and posts from Buffalo, NY.
I don't know Constitutional Insurgent but he would have to lose at least 40 IQ points to be liberaltwit and isn't mentally deranged so he can't be the duck.
Ducky, you fail the literacy test. Bigot is someone who has strong views. So yes, I suppose I am a bigot. How is that a bad thing? Now of course, your statement intends to demean me, which is what communists do when they cannot engage in an intelligent conversation. I’m not surprised. Throw your barbs at Romney, Netanyahu, me, Warren ….and eventually we come up with this conclusion: you’re a zero.
ReplyDeleteLet me leave you with this picture: you walk into the section of the zoo housing monkeys and you start staring at them; real hard stares. Knowing you, you’ll probably also make faces at them. It doesn’t take long before you rile one; if you rile one, then suddenly all the monkeys are screaming and going … excuse the pun, “ape.” This was my reference to “sand monkeys.” It doesn’t take much to rile them up. Now don’t you feel just a little stupid? Come on, admit it … Well anyway, thanks for stopping by and again, not making a substantial contribution.
Sam :-)
ReplyDeleteWARREN! HI! you're missed :-)
@ Robert Sinclair,
ReplyDeleteTraditionally, in the diplomatic world, the embassy is the territory of the Country that owns it and when the Ambassador speaks, his words and pronouncements are the words and pronouncements of the country he or she represents. In effect, the person of the Ambassador "is" the country they represent.
Therefore, an attack on the Ambassador or the embassy is an attack on the United States and if this was done, at the behest of another country, is an act of war.
The deaths of the Marines do not rise to this level, they will be blown off as "an unfortunate misunderstanding" and I don't like it a damned bit better than you!
Is it 1979 again?
ReplyDeleteObama is out-Cartering Carter.
Look's legit
ReplyDeleteSomething to consider the next time you ask where the Arabs are protesting the attack.
Ducky, I don’t think anyone suggests “all Arabs” are the problem. No one with any brains, anyway. The problem has always been subculture. Our problem now is that government leaders in Egypt and Libya are using these disaffected persons, or loons, as surrogates. You should be angry with these nitwits, rather than your own countrymen. You may pretend, as have Obama and Clinton that the Egyptian government has nothing to do with the attacks on our Embassy. The facts are otherwise. The Muslim Brotherhood goaded, organized, encouraged, and controlled the demonstrations outside the Cairo embassy. Dare we suggest these “elements” or surrogates have ties to al-Qaeda? Yes, we can … elements that find aid and comfort from The Muslim Brotherhood run Egyptian government.
ReplyDeleteI am infuriated with Obama's and Clinton's responses. Sick of them defending murderers!
ReplyDeleteFour people are dead, and he is happily campaigning in Las Vegas. Unbelievable!
On the anniversary of 9/11 America was attacked again, but this time we have a coward in office who will do nothing but give pathetic speeches.
Z,
ReplyDeleteHello, sorry but this will probably be a short reprieve for me then back to the grind. I miss being around.
@ Ducky
ReplyDeleteJust curious but could by 'profit' they mean 'prophet' (in the link you have appended above)? Thanks!
I have no doubt that many Libyans are horrified by what happened to our embassy personnel there.
ReplyDeleteI rather imagine that many Egyptians are also horrified by what's going on in Egypt. Aren't some crucifixions taking place?
Anyway, I have never said that ALL Muslims are a problem. I HAVE said that the West needs to be aware that fundamentalist Islam is growing more in strength than the West chooses to recognize.
I happen to believe that the Arab Spring began as something good, then got co-opted. Now, there's a monster on the loose and a monster who is feeding and gaining ground. No amount of appeasement ever satisfies a monster.
In my view, the removal of Gaddafi and Mubarak is going to reverberate in ways that we almost dare not to imagine. I hope that I'm wrong.
As for "sand monkeys," Sam has explained well why he used that term. Connotation beyond the stereotypical use of the term -- and the term fits the behaviors of certain people, be they Arabs or not.
Warren said:
ReplyDeleteTherefore, an attack on the Ambassador or the embassy is an attack on the United States and if this was done, at the behest of another country, is an act of war.
What in that statement is untrue? Not a single word!
Channeling Neville Chamberlain will not work! It didn't work before, either.
Meanwhile, in Yemen:
ReplyDeleteChanting “death to America,” hundreds of protesters angered by an anti-Islam film stormed the U.S. Embassy compound in Yemen’s capital and burned the American flag on Thursday, the latest in a series of attacks on American diplomatic missions in the Middle East.
The protesters breached the usually tight security around the embassy and reached the compound grounds but did not enter the main building housing the offices. Once inside the compound, they brought down the U.S. flag, burned it and replaced it with a black banner bearing Islam’s declaration of faith — “There is no God but Allah.”
Before storming the grounds, demonstrators removed the embassy’s sign on the outer wall, set tires ablaze and pelted the compound with rocks.
It was similar to an attack on the U.S. Embassy in the Egyptian capital of Cairo on Tuesday night. A mob of Libyans also attacked the U.S. consulate in the eastern city of Benghazi on Tuesday, killing American Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans.
In Egypt, protesters were clashing with police near the U.S. Embassy in the capital Cairo for the third day in a row....
The movie will be blamed. I heard that blame meme on this morning's CBS news.
The black flag in the WaPo excerpt above is the flag of jihad.
ReplyDeleteUh oh!
ReplyDeleteIt now appears that the Libyan military were involved in attacking the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi.
See THIS at the WaPo.
Aboutthe film that supposedly sparked these attacks on U.S. embassies and consulates, from the WaPo:
ReplyDelete...But it may not have been a film at all that triggered the violence — or a film may have been responsible in one case, but not the other. There was the not-incidental date of the attacks — Sept. 11 — and the prospect that the attacks were planned to coincide with the anniversary of al-Qaeda’s strike on New York and the Pentagon 11 years ago. Obama administration officials suspected that the Libyan embassy violence was part of a plot that used the protests as a cover....
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ReplyDeleteI read the whole WAPO article but no mention of anything military except a comparison to military-like moves. The word militant was used a lot, but that article says nothing about the Libyan military taking part or hinting at it, that I could find.
ReplyDeleteBlack Sheep,
ReplyDeleteI must have nabbed the wrong link. **sigh**
I had a lot of windows open to various articles.
The attack seems to have been very coordinate and two-pronged. See THIS. Stories are not confirmed, but there does seem to be an indication that at least some of those who attacked were inside men.
Not one of them is anything except elated, filled with joy, over the deaths and destruction of our embassy.
I find that hard to believe. It does seem that Ambassador Stevens was well received by my Libyans.
Time will tell the truth.
BTW, I did read somewhere that certain people are calling all these embassy attacks "The Second Arab Spring." If that is true -- and I think that it well could be -- the Middle East is going to rock and roll. The Campaigner in Chief will do nothing except want to meet with all the groups' leaders.