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Friday, October 12, 2012

Biden Shows How Not To Behave During A Debate

(Two posts today. Please scroll down)

Video clips from last night's debate and commentary below the fold.

Last night, Biden consistently behaved as if a brat in junior high:


Comment from Nicoenarg, at this thread at Infidel Bloggers Alliance:
[W]atching this debate from Argentina and as a non American, I have to say that I felt disgusted by Biden's whole performance but specifically his condescending smile.

I've watched a lot of debates over the years and the only times I have seen that smile is when the debater has nothing to offer but wants to win by belittling the opponent.

These kinds of people do win support from their followers but turn off those who are with the opposition but more importantly those who were independent.

I think it was a great debate for democrats because their guy "shut Ryan up". But I think Biden might have pushed the independents away even more than Obama did in the first debate.
I concur with Nicoenarg.

In my view, Biden vacillated between a patronizing attitude and disruptive behavior.  Any points that he could have won on substance were largely negated by his juvenile behavior bordering on bullying.

Ryan, on the other hand, was a bit too wimpy at times.  Was he showing respect for his elder and respect for the office of Vice President?  Maybe.

I doubt that either Biden or Ryan won or lost any votes as a result of last night's debate.

Your opinion welcome.

62 comments:

  1. As I said, if the discussion is about Biden's aggressiveness then the Dems win.

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  2. Duck,
    Aggressiveness is not necessarily an indication for good governance.

    Just sayin'.

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  3. The purpose of Biden's style was to reenergize the base and get the contributions flowing.

    Mission accomplished.

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  4. Duck,
    Did the earth shift, or something?

    I agree with your second comment.

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  5. Duck,
    Mission accomplished.

    Except that Biden may, in the end, make Obama look wimpy.

    A lot may now depend on what happens in the two debates.

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  6. From RedState:

    An Insignificant Hour and a Half of Joe Biden Braying Like a Biblical Donkey

    I really do personally like Joe Biden, but he came across as a braying Biblical donkey tonight on stage in Kentucky. It was made worse by a moderator who lost repeated control of the debate.

    Up front, I have to say I’m hung up on one big thing. Joe Biden said the intelligence community got it wrong in Libya, but he says we can trust those very same people on Iran....

    [...]

    Honestly, had I not had to watch this debate for work, I would have turned it off. I don’t really want to be yelled out for an hour and a half and that’s what Biden spent the whole time doing overcompensating for Barack Obama’s lackluster performance....


    More at the above link.

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  7. Duck has a point. Biden's rude and crazy behavior turned off ordinary Americans, but it energized the msnbs nutballs, so in the final analysis, he did nothing for his ticket.

    And Ryan came off very well.

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  8. Biden is a low-class lout, and loud-mouthed bully. Anyone who would find his behavior attractive or praiseworthy must, himself, be cut from the same bolt of sleazy, poorly-woven cloth.

    Mr. Ryan, Alas! is not "orator," his voice is thin, his demeanor polite, reserved, respectful, dignified.

    From most of the post-debate reports I've been hearing most decent people resented Biden's frankly boorish behavior during the debate.

    I do not think ill of Martha Raddatz, even if she does have "a warm personal relationship" with Barack Obama -- whatever ever that means.

    I saw no place where her bias was prominent. I thought she was gracious and unobtrusive.

    I'd fault Ms. Raddatz only for not doing her duty as a "moderator" by allowing Blowhard Biden the Bigmouthed Bully Boy to INTERRUPT Paul Ryan EIGHTY-TWO TIMES while Mr. Ryan was attempting to give an honest, thoughtful answer to the questions.

    It's so sad that we have devolved into a society where LOUD, FAST, PUSHY, RELENTLESS and VULGAR are considered "winning" attributes.

    DISGUSTING!

    ~ FreeThinke

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  9. Thank you, Kurt, for putting Ducky's "praise" into proper context.

    As is so often the case, you are exactly right,

    ~ FT

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  10. "Mission accomplished."

    Except that Biden may, in the end, make Obama look wimpy.

    Perhaps, but what Biden succeeded admirably in doing was exposing himself for the ill-natured horse's ass he really is.

    Biden is decidedly PLEBEIAN.

    He's a consummate vulgarian, and like many others who publicly identify themselves as Roman Catholics, he's the vilest form of hypocrite imaginable.

    His "stance" favoring abortion and free contraception for affluent sluts with law degrees and the like is pure PANDERING. Biden, like most politicians, is a WHORE.

    "Sincerity" is not in the man's vocabulary, even though he's made a CAREER out "always being sincere, whether he means it or not." ;-)

    ~ FreeThinke

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  11. Joe Biden did exactly what the Democrats needed him to do; fire up their base. His class-warfaredemagoguery was well done. There are plenty of fools out there who will buy into it.

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  12. Over at Z's site, I saw this comment from Lady Gun Slinger:

    What I saw last night was an old,angry drunk attacking, and interrupting someone trying to engage in a rational discussion of issues.

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  13. FT,
    Biden is an attention whore and, as far as I recall, he always has been.

    Loved your post on this topic, BTW. "Filibastard" fits Biden perfectly!

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  14. Silverfiddle,
    Yes, Biden energized the msnbs nutballs.

    He also personified the Left: When the other side is supposed to take a turn to speak, shut up the other side.

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  15. Ryan could have been more aggressive, but I understand why he was not. Let Biden show his true colors, which he did.

    I blame the moderator, who allowed Biden to get away with his terrible behavior.

    Debbie
    Right Truth
    http://www.righttruth.typepad.com

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  16. I wondered if Biden was, actually, auditioning for a job as a clown, in preparation for his, soon to come, unemployment situation. But, upon further consideration, his crass performance was just indicative of his persona and what is relished by his base. It's past time for this Nation and its governance to be returned to the adults!

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  18. Agreed that Biden displayed poor character while Ryan did the opposite. Both made good points and Ryan won it for his deportment.

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  19. Jon,
    I wondered if Biden was, actually, auditioning for a job as a clown...

    Chuckles the Clown possibly?

    Great comment, Jon.

    We did see on display what the Left wants: for the Right to shut up, and the Left will interrupt over and over again to accomplish that goal.

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  20. Black Sheep,
    As I've said at other blogs, if any of my debate students behaved in the same manner as Biden did last night, I'd stop the debate and declare a win for the opposition.

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  21. The debate was interesting- however, myself and two others watching were constantly yelling at Biden to SHUT UP. His interrupting was childish! He knew if Ryan talked his goose was cooked.

    Overall, I doubt the debate changed anything though. Ryan was a conservative, Biden a liberal. Ryan needed to be more aggressive- though Romney took that role- but at least he wasn't annoying. In a REAL debate, Ryan won. In a television debate... not so much. He isn't a actor it seems. Which I like, liberals hate, and who knows what the independents think. Ryan didn't hurt himself- which, if it was his goal (and it may have been), he very much succeeded at. Biden, however, was un-stomachable. His mugging the camera, laughing and child-like interrupting will turn people off (besides loony liberals, but they don't need to be won. Swing voters do.)

    If anything, people will see how unprofessional Biden (and, by extension, Obama) is compared to Ryan, which should hurt them for those with sense (aka not liberals/teenagers.) But, only time (and polls) will tell.

    One last thing: It seems the BO team is flailing, just a bit. BO himself lost his debate, and Biden, while he did do his homework, was desperate in an obvious way. Romney steamrolled BO, and Ryan was cool as cucumber, showing their lack of worry. If this keeps up, the BO team is going to snap, hopefully on camera.

    -Wildstar

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  22. AOW, good point.

    Is Obama capable of coming off as anything but a wimp?
    I really don't know but the Dems do seem to accept that need.

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  23. Biden's boorish performance may have been the red meat the Dem kook base was looking for but it likely turned off equal numbers of Independent and women voters.

    Biden's performance was unlikely to stop the movement towards Romney in nearly every single poll.

    Putting an angry, old white man on stage is not enough to save Obama.

    The next Romney/Obama debate will be crucial.

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  24. Biden was boorish, but it did not upset me. He made himself look foolish, even desperate. All in all, the debate did not upset me, nor did it change my growing confidence that Romney will win the election.

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  25. One of Biden's bold lies last night:

    Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”

    “I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”

    Then Sen. Biden voted for the Afghanistan resolution on Sept. 14, 2001 which authorized “the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.”

    And on Oct. 11, 2002, Biden voted for a resolution authorizing unilateral military action in Iraq, according to the Washington Post.

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  26. A reminder from Clint Eastwood:

    Biden is a grin with a body behind it.

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  27. Oh, my!

    Intercepted Phone Call That The Administration Relied Upon To Claim A "Protest" At Benghazi ALSO CONTAINED ACKNOWLEDGEMENT FROM AL QAEDA THAT THEY WOULD PROCEED WITH THE PLANNED ATTACK

    Too bad that Ryan didn't get that information in during last night's debate.

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  28. "Too bad that Ryan didn't get that information in during last night's debate"

    Yes, as well as some other information that didn't get in. I'm in hopes, however, that such will get in during the forthcoming debates where it will be fresh on the minds of voters, come November,6.

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  29. Wildstar,
    I'm willing to bet that you and the two others just about had a meltdown while watching the debate last night.

    Am I correct?

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  30. Stogie,
    As a teacher, I was appalled at the poor example that Biden set. Not that my students would use Biden as a role model in the first place. Heh.

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  31. Why in the world did Biden need to energize their base? The base, i.e., the free-stuff loving Obamafomes are going to vote the Obama/Biden ticket no matter what.

    Think back to the OJ trial... OJ jurors wouldn't have cared if there had been a video of OJ killing Nicole and Ron, they would've still found him not guilty.

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  32. AOW- pretty much! As it ended Biden was utterly drowned out by our protests.

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  33. Wildstar,
    I can hear you three right now. Hehehe.

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  34. Biden won back the hearts of the liberals that NOMObama scared off by his dismal attempt at a debate, BUT, at what cost? His boorish behavior last night WILL cost them in undecided votes. You may take that to the bank.

    Paul Ryan did NOT lose any faith from the right, and showed the undecided voters what a decent, moral politician looks and sounds like. We don't very often seen any bumps in poll numbers with VP debates, but we WILL this time out.

    Martha Raddatz SUCKED as a moderater! She was reasonably unbiased in the questioning, but WHERE was she during all the butting in? Did she like being SCHUSCHED by that blowhard jerk? No, then why didn't she say anything? Terrible job!

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  35. Biden was an absolute train wreck. I suspect he turned off far more people than he 'energized.'

    Even my husband, who is conservative but moderately so, and always wants to give the benefit of the doubt was cringing and at times gaping at Biden's behavior.

    That's pretty bad, IMO.

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  36. Biden acted like someone completely irresponsible. We shouldn't be surprised at that. After all, he is Mr. Gaffe!

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  37. I'm surprised Ryan didn't call Biden a "homophobe."

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  38. Trying to "energize the base" at this point in the campaign is a sure sign that the Obama team is in hock up to their ears and needs money badly.

    When this ends with a massive defeat for the Democrats, they will be hard pressed to make their political payoffs and favors, let alone, pay all the political operatives working the campaign now. Others will be forced to empty their political war chests and face massive personal debt.

    Its a lot harder to rake in the graft when your out of office / favor.

    That would explain Obama's attitude and performance in the last debate and the internal polling is looking bad for the Dems.

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  39. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  40. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  41. OMG,

    "I was appalled at the poor example that Biden set."


    I'm appalled at the thought that he was setting, some sort of, an example!! ARRRRGGHAAAARASKPUCKAAAGROMPUGHTPUCK!!!!! OK, I'll now begin the clean-up.

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  42. Biden's behavior was uncouth and downright disrespectful.

    Ryan, I felt, was debating against Biden and Martha. He couldn't finish anything he tried to convey. He was a perfect gentlemen showed respect to both Biden and the moderator, can say much about their behavior.

    I wanted Ryan to get just a wee bit more on the offensive. All in all, he did a good job.

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  43. Leticia,

    "I wanted Ryan to get just a wee bit more on the offensive."


    I'm with you 100%. I hope that this comes about in subsequent debates, closer to the election. You always 'nail it'!

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  44. I wanted so badly for Ryan to snipe back at Biden.

    Why didn't Ryan do so? He is perfectly capable of sniping back.

    I have concluded that Ryan determined to comport himself according to the rules of policy debate. Does he have experience in that area? I think that he must as one of his college majors was political science.

    A few years ago, I learned from a trial attorney -- a federal prosecutor, I believe -- that attorneys are trained to use logic fallacies to manipulate a jury into a particular verdict. This attorney taught his own daughter to set up a straw man during her debate argument in my class, and he clued me in after class. Well, the judges and I called her on it -- and gave the win to the opposing team.

    I just looked up Joe Biden at Wikipedia. I know, I know -- not much of a source. But it's convenient. Check out Biden's early life and education. He, too, majored in political science and obtained his juris doctor as well.

    Based on the above basic information about his early life and education, did Biden know what he was doing during the debate? Maybe, maybe not. He wasn't much of a student. Please read the information.

    Also see a posting that I did: Joe Biden's Brain. Now, I'm not a neurologist, but I have studied neurology extensively. Inappropriate laughter is a hallmark of brain damage. Really. And so is confabulation, which Biden does all the time.

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  45. Meanwhile, at the Daily Beast (Newsweek), we have the following by Michael Medved:

    Joe Biden’s Rude Debate Laughter: The Joke’s on Him

    Biden seemed vastly more adolescent and immature than Ryan despite the fact that he is 27 years older.

    [...]

    The biggest winner of this encounter?

    Neither Biden nor Ryan, but probably Mitt Romney.


    I'm not sure that Medved is correct with that last statement I cited. Americans today seem almost to crave rudeness. And Americans like to be entertained, too. Biden's performance was grotesque, but ENTERTAINMENT. Sheesh.

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  46. Leticia & Jon,
    I am a patient perhaps -- at times, too patient.

    That said, I couldn't have held in my anger as long as Ryan did on Thursday night.

    You know, if Biden had mugged for the camera for only 15 minutes, he might actually have done the Obama campaign a lot of good. As it turned out, Biden played the derisive brat for nearly the entire debate. I suspect that he was coached to stop the disdain and ridicule after a certain point, but couldn't control himself.

    The moderator should have reined in Biden. Why didn't she?

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  47. Warren,
    Thank you for continuing to take out the trash, trash which certainly follows Einstein's definition of insanity.

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  48. I'm just bidin' my time,
    Till we get rid of the slime.
    Joe Biden has style
    But it's truly vile,
    And Obama, himself, is crime.


    ~ FT

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  49. @FT

    "I'm just bidin' my time,........."

    I love it!!!


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  50. It's scary. Biden is one heartbeat away from the Presidency, and we thought Obama was dumb.

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  51. Bob,

    Joe (bite me) Biden trumps the entire Secret Service when it comes to protecting B.O., for exactly the reason that I think you are saying.

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  52. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  53. Jon,
    You mentioned Joe (bite me) Biden. Have you seen this graphic?

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  54. WOO HOO, AOW!

    Biden as The Grinning Court Jester is too, too funny for words.

    I've pulled that picture onto the desktop and am sure to use it before The Big Event in November.

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  55. Glad I tickled your funny bone, Mr. Berg.

    Laughter's been in short supply lately, hasn't it?

    ~ FT

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  56. Why didn't Ryan do so? He is perfectly capable of sniping back.

    -----
    Because even as dumb as he is he knows not to get in a fight with the alpha dog.

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  57. Duck,
    I know that you believe that.

    I don't.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on that matter.

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  58. Hah. Ducky doesn't understand how an alpha dog actually operates, then.

    It sure isn't by constant mouthing and bluster.

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  59. FT,
    Isn't that graphic hilarious? And fitting, too.

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  60. Ryan didnt have to do anything, except act like a statesman. Ryan did that in spades by calmly trying over and over again to get his points out. The public has spoken since the debate and they saw the contrast.

    If the debate tomorrow goes half as well as the first, you can start coloring Ohio, Penn, and Michigan in Red. Already in the bag, NC, Virginia, NH, Wisconsin and Florida.

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  61. Blogginator,
    Tonight's debate is critical, IMO.

    The media and the pr folks are pumping up expectations for Obama's performance. How aggressive will he be?

    But the more important question is this: How will BHO do in a townhall format? He does connect well with people because of his charisma. However, he doesn't think well on his feet.

    I expect BHO to avoid the questions about Benghazi by saying something like "The matter is being thoroughly investigated, and I'm going to wait until the facts are in" and/or "I cannot fully comment on this matter because of security reasons." Now, if he tries to say "waiting until all the facts are in," Romney can slam him with the fact that BHO did NOT wait for the facts when the Cambridge professor had that confrontation with the police back in 2009 and BHO jumped the gun and took the side of the black man over the white man.

    -------------

    I'm not sure if Virginia is in the bag. Maybe. I can't tell what will happen statewide because I live in Liberal Land Northern Virginia, which typically votes much further left and the rest of the state.

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