tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post8833547191033276000..comments2023-10-03T07:01:41.144-05:00Comments on Always On Watch: Semper Vigilans: Safe Spaces?Always On Watchhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-49937100324268895412020-05-21T17:12:18.166-05:002020-05-21T17:12:18.166-05:00You look at which nations did intervene forcefully...You look at which nations did intervene forcefully and early. South Korea is an example.<br /><br />I refer everyone again to compare New York and Florida, although the ballgame is not over. Silverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-10904975694677701192020-05-21T12:24:35.916-05:002020-05-21T12:24:35.916-05:00I do recall that. My mom had polio so I've alw...I do recall that. My mom had polio so I've always been somewhat alert to polio news. Look, as most here would attest, nothing is 100% safe and everything medical trends towards managing risk.<br /><br />While not minimizing those who maybe lost their lives to the vaccine, I bet that number was quite a bit lower than we would've seen had we decided to let the disease runs its course while waiting for herd immunity.<br /><br />Maybe... Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16777087329254991970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-46785082239658127432020-05-21T12:06:43.599-05:002020-05-21T12:06:43.599-05:00Dave,
there are always ppl who, for some medical ...Dave,<br /><i> there are always ppl who, for some medical reason cannot, or should not be vaccinated.</i><br /><br />Indeed. But sometimes those people don't find out till after the fact. See my comment above to Jez.<br /><br />BTW, do you recall that history of the polio vaccine? See <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#Vaccine-induced_polio" rel="nofollow">Vaccine-induced polio</a>.<br /><br />Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-26851795966299951302020-05-21T11:59:24.511-05:002020-05-21T11:59:24.511-05:00Jez,
I had no idea until 2015 that getting a live ...Jez,<br />I had no idea until 2015 that getting a live vaccine would be so hard on me. BTW, that live vaccine was the chickenpox vaccine. The Shingles Vaccine was a live vaccine, too, at that time; but because I hadn't had the chickenpox (I was tested to make sure), I had to get that particular vaccine. I reacted at the time (just a rash, which I ignored), but ignored that reaction, which was, after all, not an unbearable reaction. <br /><br />A few months later? Kidney trouble. Excruciating pain, some of which I still have even after kidney surgery. <br /><br />I've since learned that live vaccines sometimes result in kidney trouble, particularly for those of us over age 60. **sigh**Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-20039500333798359992020-05-21T11:44:46.278-05:002020-05-21T11:44:46.278-05:00Jez... re the vaccine timetable. Those are my worr...Jez... re the vaccine timetable. Those are my worries about a "Warp Speed" move towards that vaccine.<br /><br />AOW... there are always ppl who, for some medical reason cannot, or should not be vaccinated. And they are the ones who need as many others as possible to be vaccinated. So as to reduce the risk to those who may not be able to get the shot.<br /><br />That's how we vanquished small pox, polio, and I hope one day, Covid.Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16777087329254991970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-84113102592989293892020-05-21T11:02:53.224-05:002020-05-21T11:02:53.224-05:00AOW of course should follow her doctor's advic...AOW of course should follow her doctor's advice and avoid live vaccines. And I agree that a relatively untested hurriedly-approved vaccine is a different animal from the long-established routine vaccines which are fully tested.jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-71924489005394684852020-05-21T10:58:50.617-05:002020-05-21T10:58:50.617-05:00I'm with Dave on this one. In my opinion "...I'm with Dave on this one. In my opinion "My not taking the vax has no effect on your health" is an untrue statement, and it belongs to a class of error that is extremely hard to avoid: it is wishful thinking. Ed would like it to be true, because if the universe did work that way, the libertarian position would become trivially easy to defend. But the universe isn't like that. Even so, I don't think libertarianism is a terrible idea, but the case for it isn't quite the slam dunk it would be if our actions didn't affect one another.jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-30330516244883828802020-05-21T10:51:37.691-05:002020-05-21T10:51:37.691-05:00One more point....COVID-19 has a long incubation p...One more point....COVID-19 has a long incubation period, and there is conflicting information about the contagion level during that asymptomatic incubation period.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-18793806377676939662020-05-21T10:50:25.666-05:002020-05-21T10:50:25.666-05:00Dave,
Perhaps one concern is lack of full disclosu...Dave,<br />Perhaps one concern is lack of full disclosure about the possible side effects of a vaccine. And I wonder if there will be enough testing to determine the possible side effects. <br /><br />Just sayin'.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-77893136319944093452020-05-21T10:48:59.976-05:002020-05-21T10:48:59.976-05:00I have been advised by three doctors -- a neurolog...I have been advised by three doctors -- a neurologist, an internist, and a urologist -- never to again get a live vaccine. I've twice reacted to a live vaccine, one at 6 months old and again at 64 years old.<br /><br />Note: there are others like me, quite a few others.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-51622278210898087522020-05-21T10:46:59.497-05:002020-05-21T10:46:59.497-05:00Jez,
To be clear, I'm not expecting perfection...Jez,<br />To be clear, I'm not expecting perfection.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-7284309233127208302020-05-21T10:12:04.481-05:002020-05-21T10:12:04.481-05:00Somewhere above in this thread Ed said... "Fo...Somewhere above in this thread Ed said... <b>"Forced vax? Why? Want the vax? Take it. My not taking the vax has no effect on your health.</b><br /><br />Ed, would it then be okay for churches, businesses and schools, as they used to do, refused to admit people who chose to avoid vaccines? Was the US wrong in requiring ppl for years to be vaccinated to attend school? <br /><br />Was our push towards vaccines, a push that 100% conquered small pox, wrong? Now we have the freedom to not get a small pox vaccine, but only because for a period of time, we vaccinated everyone so we could beat that disease.<br /><br />I'm curious as to why now we seem unwilling to adopt the very attitude that allowed to vaccinate and wipe out diseases like polio and small pox. <br /><br />Were we wrong to have done so? Were we robbing people of their freedoms? Or were we acting in the collective best interests of the US and the world? Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16777087329254991970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-16081033571407569862020-05-21T08:43:05.494-05:002020-05-21T08:43:05.494-05:00That's always my first question too, but we ca...That's always my first question too, but we can't let perfect be the enemy of good. You're absolutely right about mental health as well.jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-59015008283329071672020-05-21T08:40:53.928-05:002020-05-21T08:40:53.928-05:00"Confirmed cases/1M population is cumulative,..."Confirmed cases/1M population is cumulative, and says much."<br />Sure, but not the efficacy of a given intervention because it doesn't distinguish between the late application of a powerful intervention, vs the prompt application of a much weaker intervention. The power of an intervention lies in the speed at which it reduces the rate of new cases.jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-86386952299147200402020-05-21T08:01:37.661-05:002020-05-21T08:01:37.661-05:00Viburnum,
We don't need Governors to order us ...Viburnum,<br /><i>We don't need Governors to order us to stay at home, to close businesses, or to restrict travel. We can make those decisions for ourselves.<br /><br />The very idea that doing so lies within the power of government is, and ought to be anathema to most Americans.<br /><br />Government is, or should be, our servant, not our master.</i><br /><br /><b>HEAR, HEAR!</b>Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-12001054338547363072020-05-21T08:00:13.082-05:002020-05-21T08:00:13.082-05:00See Servpro, which is just one of such companies t...See <a href="https://www.servpro.com/" rel="nofollow">Servpro</a>, which is just one of such companies that have sprouted up in the last few weeks.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-34869772194062955752020-05-21T07:58:22.242-05:002020-05-21T07:58:22.242-05:00SF,
CDC has just updated its guidance, saying touc...SF,<br /><i>CDC has just updated its guidance, saying touch surfaces don't appear to be big spreaders.</i><br /><br />Indeed.<br /><br />There goes the new cottage industry of deep cleaners.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-30794476430520275932020-05-21T07:56:54.907-05:002020-05-21T07:56:54.907-05:00Jez,
I have questions in my mind as to the reliabi...Jez,<br />I have questions in my mind as to the reliability of the testing.<br /><br />Some older folks will go around the bend into senility with isolation measures. I am particularly concerned about folks in nursing homes. They rely on their social contacts -- at least within the facility.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-22458764345144583272020-05-21T07:36:43.456-05:002020-05-21T07:36:43.456-05:00We have a better understanding of this than we did...We have a better understanding of this than we did in February. CDC has just updated its guidance, saying touch surfaces don't appear to be big spreaders. Its close contact and respiratory droplets.<br /><br />Armed with this information, we can protect the vulnerable and let everybody else get back to living and working, with reasonable precautions in place.<br /><br />Governments don't have their own money and they don't create anything. They live off of the economic activity of people and businesses.<br /><br /><br /><br />https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.htmlSilverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-2753242899397499522020-05-21T07:29:21.934-05:002020-05-21T07:29:21.934-05:00I'll be interested to see the methodology when...I'll be interested to see the methodology when someone brings forward a statistical case. Confirmed cases/1M population is cumulative, and says much. Sweden is way up there, but the UK, Italy and US numbers are higher.<br /><br />Of course, the entire set of data is unreliable because of differing methodologies from all the US states and world nations that report, and the basis is just cases we know of.<br /><br />So, I repeat what I said earlier: I have yet to see any advocate of lockdowns make the statistical case. I have yet to see any hints of correlationSilverfiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13541652236676260219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-12895399977994302372020-05-21T05:37:18.659-05:002020-05-21T05:37:18.659-05:00"How long are you willing to protect your mum..."How long are you willing to protect your mum in that way?"<br /><br />She's a sociable person, so I want her out and about as soon as possible.<br /><br />"But I miss seeing my cousin -- and, by extension, my cousin's cute little six-year-old granddaughter."<br /><br />I'm not dismissing how tough this is. Uncomfortable fact is, vulnerable groups will need to spend longer in isolation if we botch the end of this lockdown. The quickest route to seeing your little cousin again (safely) is via gradual re-opening with lots of testing IMO.jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-52855444465913745902020-05-21T05:28:48.450-05:002020-05-21T05:28:48.450-05:00Another change from the Centers from Disease Contr...Another change from the Centers from Disease Control:<br /><br /><a href="https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-now-says-coronavirus-does-not-spread-easily-via-contaminated-surfaces" rel="nofollow">CDC now says coronavirus 'does not spread easily' via contaminated surfaces</a>.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-75010629347518639692020-05-21T05:28:34.262-05:002020-05-21T05:28:34.262-05:00"As of this writing, my cousin has not tested..."As of this writing, my cousin has not tested positive. Neither has my cousin's husband or any of his employees."<br /><br />Have they been tested?jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-43204395060730659312020-05-21T05:24:56.730-05:002020-05-21T05:24:56.730-05:00Jez,
I'm "scared" of my mum catching...Jez,<br /><i>I'm "scared" of my mum catching it. I can prevent her from catching it directly from me</i><br /><br />Very commendable.<br /><br />How long are you willing to protect your mum in that way?<br /><br />As one who is being "protected" by my cousin, who is like a daughter to me, I can tell you that this isolation wears on my nerves. <br /><br />I'm not sure that I've ever gone this long without seeing my cousin -- and getting occasional help with caregiving here. <br /><br />Yesterday, in fact, I had to throw myself on the sympathies of my neighborhood network to get some supplies that I need for caregiving. The stores were stripped of what I needed. Now, I am grateful for my neighborhood network when one of my neighbors brought not only what I needed but also chocolate cookies and a bouquet of flowers (all of these things left on my front porch in a "touchless" exchange).<br /><br />But I miss seeing my cousin -- and, by extension, my cousin's cute little six-year-old granddaughter.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-35832344430075049492020-05-21T05:20:42.905-05:002020-05-21T05:20:42.905-05:00Whether the data is used by rational individuals o...Whether the data is used by rational individuals or by governments to drive policy, it's counter-productive to introduce made-up statistics.jezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14865247084509280406noreply@blogger.com