tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post2949702433897586097..comments2023-10-03T07:01:41.144-05:00Comments on Always On Watch: Semper Vigilans: Pat Condell On Islamic Cultural TerrorismAlways On Watchhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-59746695202258357652011-06-25T06:12:39.617-05:002011-06-25T06:12:39.617-05:00Damien,
Acknowledged.
Thank you.Damien,<br />Acknowledged.<br /><br />Thank you.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-37245747453299918122011-06-25T05:41:13.440-05:002011-06-25T05:41:13.440-05:00"The importance for discussion and debate is ..."The importance for discussion and debate is paramount, at the least it ensures each party has to consider their own position more seriously". - President Truman<br /><br />I appreciate that good discussion and debate is available here, that we agree or disagree is in fact of no consequence.D Charles QChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17805304737361014277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-80274693754107014622011-06-24T06:08:20.434-05:002011-06-24T06:08:20.434-05:00Damien,
Not all anti-jihadists I know fit into the...Damien,<br />Not all anti-jihadists I know fit into the classifications that you delineated in your comment. But, yes, most do.<br /><br />I am an anti-jihadist, but I <a href="http://alwaysonwatch.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">entered</a> the blogosphere because of the doings of CAIR in my local community. At the time, I barely knew any anti-jihadists as I didn't have a high-speed connection to the Internet. Two of the few sites that I could get to load were <i>Northern Virginiastan</i>, where is used to team blog, and <i>Jihad Watch</i>. For years, I didn't even know that Pamela Geller existed.<br /><br />By the way, the book that "lit up my board" was Trikovic's <i>The Sword of the Prophet</i>. Right after I read that book, I read Oriana Fallaci's book <i>The Rage and the Pride</i>.<br /><br />Anyway, as you've already pointed out, you and I disagree on many points. However, our discussion here has been reasoned, so I've continued to participate in the discussion.<br /><br />As for deleting comments, I don't do so unless the comments are vile. Dissent is not a reason for me to delete comments. Your comments will continue to stand here at my site -- unless Blogger crashes, that is.<br /><br />Take care.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-62443688016950548922011-06-24T05:50:50.795-05:002011-06-24T05:50:50.795-05:00Damien,
I haven't yet read your last comment.
...Damien,<br />I haven't yet read your last comment.<br /><br />But I have published it. Your comment, for whatever reason, was stuck in Blogger's spam folder. Blogger has mysterious ways.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-30383282954444917062011-06-23T19:14:16.787-05:002011-06-23T19:14:16.787-05:00Fringe is Fringe. The revolutionaries of America ...Fringe is Fringe. The revolutionaries of America were not Fringe, they had a large, solid work-base, they were not "establishment" which is different.<br /><br />Modern day Fringe, in particular with the web, means that they are only supported by a limited group that if on the web is also questionably loyal. Brovado and the desire to be part of something exciting leads people to support things in anonimity but in reality would not do so, thus the Fringe is even more Fringe because their support base is not a quantifiable mass base.<br /><br />In this particular case, the self-proclaimed anti-Jihad group is easily identifiable as a group but their loyalty base is not as great and quesitonable in substance.<br /><br />They are mostly of a great big circle that share information and in fact often share each other as sources. They are almost totally without academic support or academic peer critique which also puts them in the fringe category. There are some connected to Academia whom carefully push their points, mostly books to sell, and are often borderline outcasts of their academic spheres.<br /><br />The sad reality is that though they should be ignored, they abuse the openness of the internet to push their line to the greater mass audience on the web and thus are a danger, because they confuse the importance of issues like the threat of Islamists and terrorists.<br /><br />Also, and we should not forget, even the anti-Jihad movement is hijacked by some groups to push their own agendas, such as the Evangalist Movements whom wish to attack Islam not because of any dangers, but because they want to convert and "save souls" or worse, "be on some crusade". Then there is the Settler-Movement whom want to build sufficient numbers of settlements in the West Bank to then force the Israeli Government to incorporate it all into the country, Daniel Greenfield is a perfect example. The last group is the profiteers whom simply creat blogs, join in but carefully you will see lots of links to books, posters and t-shirts of thiers or thier co-conspiritors. Get your credit-cards ready. They are not interested in the subject, they are in fact targetting the fringe for profit.<br /><br />A last comment (sorry I always write in length), have you also noticed that the self-proclaimed anti-Jihadists are also mostly the far-right, mostly in the tea-party scene, mostly the ones who support partisanship, mostly are the ones who pushed the birther debate, etc, etc, etc. Oh, I am centre-right, a registered British Conservative Party member.D Charles QChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17805304737361014277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-4298339693630664952011-06-23T08:50:02.762-05:002011-06-23T08:50:02.762-05:00AlwaysOnWatch,
It was interesting to read about yo...AlwaysOnWatch,<br />It was interesting to read about your findings and opinions.<br />I never heard about Susan Douglass.<br />I would try to check it out on the internet.<br /><br />WLILAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-31531240079786393572011-06-23T05:57:51.091-05:002011-06-23T05:57:51.091-05:00Damien,
If anything it is tribalism that is the ma...Damien,<br /><i>If anything it is tribalism that is the major problem within the Muslim world.</i><br /><br />Tribalism and Islam are comingled in many respects and has been for centuries. At some points, one cannot discern any real separation now.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-6516850882945800592011-06-23T05:56:17.720-05:002011-06-23T05:56:17.720-05:00WLIL
You mentioned: weird worldwide pro-islamic po...WLIL<br />You mentioned: <i>weird worldwide pro-islamic political agenda</i>.<br /><br />Indeed, that political agenda is a huge part of the problem.<br /><br />Yes, most scholars (and others) have an agenda. I try to remember that and do my own evaluation based on facts that can be confirmed.<br /><br />One of my pet peeves is the whitewash of the history of Islam. That whitewash has intensified since 9/11 to the point that, in some textbooks, there will be an entire chapter on Islam but no chapter on Christianity or Judaism. I saw such a phenomenon in a textbook used in high school. Perhaps Susan Douglass's hand is behind that particular textbook. Familiar with her?Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-45505093016291880322011-06-23T05:51:56.470-05:002011-06-23T05:51:56.470-05:00Damien,
Clarification....I mentioned Atlas Shrugge...Damien,<br />Clarification....I mentioned <i>Atlas Shrugged</i> not to reference Pamela Geller's web site <i>Atlas Shrugs</i>, but rather to make the point that I have read original works by "authors" of various ideologies, religious and otherwise, including ideologies to which I don't subscribe. Ayn Rand "invented" objectivism, so I tried to wade through her so-called "masterwork." I didn't find it well written, nor did I agree with a lot of what was presented.<br /><br />I don't agree with your assessment of Pamela Geller. Also, I should tell you that I don't read her web site very often -- not for the reasons you gave, however.<br /><br />Blogs may be "fringe," but sometimes "fringe" does serve a good purpose. For example, many writers of the American Revolution period were considered "fringe" at the time.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-20159784575129894872011-06-22T21:26:36.592-05:002011-06-22T21:26:36.592-05:00I don't think those many islamic academics and...I don't think those many islamic academics and islamic mainstream media people that I came across, which I did not take note of their name, are that original either as they tend to copy and paste from original western reviews or from orginal western historians or tend to be very anti-western achievement and tend to be extremely and fanatically supportive, directly or indirectly, of their weird worldwide pro-islamic political agenda. <br />Anti-islamic blogs, whether one like it or not, are getting more widespread, more high quality, more educational and reinforcing what we nonbelievers already know about the creeping of the sinisterly, unpleasant unfiltration of the islamic totalitarian culture.<br /><br />WLILAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-72149018869666982242011-06-22T18:54:56.790-05:002011-06-22T18:54:56.790-05:00In the eastern world, it is usually the poorer peo...In the eastern world, it is usually the poorer people or disadvantaged nonbeliever individual like myself who had fallen onto bad times that get oppressed by lack of support and lack of opportunity to improve in an oppressive asian country dominated and infested by backward, irrational, supremacist, abusive islamic people. I don't really know much about china, though I do know that some chinese people in asia are influenced by unpleasant islamic culture. <br />I have no sympathy for oppressive eastern people of various faiths or nonfaith who make use of their vile eastern totalitarian ideology or vile eastern culture to exploit the western world generosity or decency.<br /><br />WLILAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-15876296184636802442011-06-22T18:41:55.439-05:002011-06-22T18:41:55.439-05:00Nice try, Atlasshrugs as you can imagine is amongs...Nice try, Atlasshrugs as you can imagine is amongs the most laughably and inept members of the self-proclaimed anti-jihadist movement and has a leader who's entire goal is to see her name in lights.<br /><br />Yes I believe Morocco is again modifying its constitution making the King less powerful and handing more to the PM and parliament. I watched an interesting item TV yesterday how the world media is getting it wrong, implying that it is the Arab spring that is the cause when in fact the process of change has been on for more than ten years since their new king took power. <br /><br />J Clifford Wright, M A S Abdel Haleem and the late Prof Lings all from SOAS, Prof. Akbar Ahmed from the American University in DC and M N Albani (an Albanian, deceased was considered a major fikh expert.<br /><br />The above come to mind of the top of my head. Real academics, some are dead, some were into Sufism, some were pretty much orthodox but they all had differing views and were willing to go through the full academic process which you have to admit none of "those blogs" could ever hope to achieve, or we could say - they are not fringe.D Charles QChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17805304737361014277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-53136730453026332182011-06-22T18:22:41.311-05:002011-06-22T18:22:41.311-05:00Isn't Morocco in the process of writing a new ...Isn't Morocco in the process of writing a new constitution?Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-16217532735821328082011-06-22T18:22:10.536-05:002011-06-22T18:22:10.536-05:00Damien,
We are in agreement on CAIR. It is intere...Damien,<br />We are in agreement on CAIR. It is interesting to note that, despite CAIR's claims to the contrary, few Muslims are actually members of CAIR -- if membership is indeed the correct term.<br /><br />On the other hand, not very many Muslims speak out against CAIR -- except for a notable few, who are then slammed by CAIR.<br /><br />CAIR's recent loss of tax-exempt status may do some damage to CAIR. We'll see.<br /><br />------------<br /><br />I brought up Al Aldalus as an example of something that can begin as good and end horribly -- due to the influence of fundamentalist Muslims, who are then pushed back by equally barbaric Christians. The influence and pushing back were not exactly chronologically sequential, and I don't mean to imply otherwise.<br /><br />I read somewhere that some of the techniques using during the Spanish Inquisition were techniques also used by the fundamentalist Muslims of the Damascene caliphate.<br /><br />In any case, religious wars are ugly.<br /><br />-------------<br /><br />No names for any academic scholars? Oh, well. I was hoping you'd provide a name or two so that I could read that same work.<br /><br />-------------<br /><br />On another note, I'm not sure that one can understand any faith (or other ideology, for that matter) without reading original works or excerpts thereof (Bible, Quran, <i>Das Kapital</i>, <i>Atlas Shrugged</i>, what have you).Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-56327387135894595462011-06-22T18:16:37.625-05:002011-06-22T18:16:37.625-05:00Interesting that you talk about tribalism.
If any...Interesting that you talk about tribalism.<br /><br />If anything it is tribalism that is the major problem within the Muslim world.<br /><br />Tribalism and other cultural practices are often presumed to belong the faith rather than the tribal culture. Perfect examples of that is sexism in general, the niqab and burka - niqab is the face covering, burka the entire covering. Islam does not say cover the face of the body in total and historians have proven that at the time of Mohammed, neither was a main stream habit. Tribal practices had it before Islam in many areas and it grew and the effort of male dominance in tribal society ensured that it snuck in. An interesting point is that Al Azhar in Cairo that is considered the main school of Islamic studies forbids the burqa and the viel within its doors!<br /><br />Talibanism is a mix of hard-line Wahhabi teachings and tribal customs and it is dispised by other Arabs even Saudi Wahhabists. It is recorded that both Bin Laden and his number 2 threatened to leave and hated every minute when living within a Taliban encampment and there was in fact twice battles with them.<br /><br />The point I am making here and perhaps our friend is confusing this, what was in fact social, cultural and tribal abuse, exceptionalism, nationalism and other rather repugnant events may very well have been just that and not really Islamic.<br /><br />Mentioning India is interesting because these hate sites often claim that abusing wives, killing them and slavery somehow is bad amongst Muslims when all of these are very much a part or in fact worse within the poor, uneducated and rural tribal Hindu India and Nepal. Nepal has the highest rate of spousal abuse in the world and India has the most slaves (endentured, half of which are children). Often Muslims and Islam is blamed for being the masters of rape as well, which also falls flat considering the highest rates of rape, either statistically or numerically is in South Africa.<br /><br />Tribalism is a key factor.D Charles QChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17805304737361014277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-11345015021100876062011-06-22T18:06:02.575-05:002011-06-22T18:06:02.575-05:00As you have studied Spanish history then you will ...As you have studied Spanish history then you will know that the purge and radicalisation that happened in Al Andalus basically wiped away a Goden Age that still has influence to this day on modern Europe and Spain (not that Spain really still recognizes that). The remnants of Al Andalus is basically still there in Morocco and to a lesser degree in Algeria and Tunisia to their gain.<br /><br />If there is any point to Al Andalus in our discussions here is that the very existance of that influencial Al Andalus proves that there was varying interpretations and not just moderate but liberal growth and more. Also that the issue is combatting radicalism and not either targetting the faith as a whole or assuming that Islam means hate and backwardness.D Charles QChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17805304737361014277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-71692118495922880602011-06-22T18:02:29.571-05:002011-06-22T18:02:29.571-05:00Yes the US is very much like the US and though int...Yes the US is very much like the US and though integration to a degree is different as also is the affects of society and laws, the same problem is there. We can add that some of the major Islamic groups like the all important CAIR avoids that important step of supporting unquestioned integration or distancing itself from foreign clerics and thus I do not trust it.D Charles QChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17805304737361014277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-67642207708995771952011-06-22T18:00:36.089-05:002011-06-22T18:00:36.089-05:00I have no specific academic that I follow more tha...I have no specific academic that I follow more than others, I read mountains of material from any person who one would call a real scholar - meaning an academic who is recognized as such and undergoes regular peer scrutiny. They can have all sorts of views, agree or disagree with each other and that is a good thing, the point being they are not from a closed fringe clique that self-supports each other and avoids the greater academic society that constantly tests itself for quality, context and accuracy.D Charles QChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17805304737361014277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-69682578271483492002011-06-22T15:39:06.055-05:002011-06-22T15:39:06.055-05:00WLIL,
The discussion I had with my Chinese friend ...WLIL,<br />The discussion I had with my Chinese friend occurred after she had read James Michener's <i>Caravans</i>. She wasn't much interested in reading anti-jihadist materials, but she was more than willing to read Michener.<br /><br />What really got to my friend was the oppression of women as depicted in <i>Caravans</i>, and she went on to speak of situations in Chinese tribal culture, which, apparently, varies by particular regions of China.<br /><br />BTW, my Chinese friend was born in Taiwan and immigrated here when very young; her parents were missionaries in mainland China and fled the communists <b>AND</b> the tribal culture.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-34805299483678563842011-06-22T09:34:58.017-05:002011-06-22T09:34:58.017-05:00Always On Watch,
I think indian tribal culture and...Always On Watch,<br />I think indian tribal culture and islamic tribal culture have more similarities though chinese tribal culture and islamic tribal culture are also quite similar in certain ways in certain parts of asia. I think islamic influenced people are more tribalistic in an extreme manner and therefore they are more intolerant of us individuals who think very differently from them or who don't like them or who don't agree with them. <br /><br />WLILAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-76240263304431512572011-06-22T06:10:36.708-05:002011-06-22T06:10:36.708-05:00WLIL,
You mentioned their ever unhelpful, selfish,...WLIL,<br />You mentioned <i>their ever unhelpful, selfish, shabby islamic culture</i>.<br /><br />Some of what you're speaking of is related to the tribal culture. Or so my friend from China tells me; she frequently comments about the similarities between Islamic culture and Chinese tribal culture.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-87570772162881603102011-06-22T06:08:09.318-05:002011-06-22T06:08:09.318-05:00Damien,
A little anecdote....
About three years a...Damien,<br />A little anecdote....<br /><br />About three years ago, I had an Afghan family enrolled in one of my homeschool classes. One day, I struck up a conversation with the father. He informed me that he was no longer a Muslim. Of course, I asked him why. His answer was as follows (paraphrase):<br /><br />"I left my country to get away from the Taliban. When I came here to America, I attended mosque and found the same teachings going on in American mosques. I searched the Quran for myself and decided I didn't want to be Muslim any longer. I read the Bible and didn't like it either. I'm no religion now."<br /><br />The mosques he was referring to are here in Northern Virginia.<br /><br />So, perhaps the situation with Euromuslims isn't unique to Europe.<br /><br />--------------<br /><br />As for shari'a, yes, I do know that shari'a involves all sorts of concepts and applications, not all of which are anti-Western and concepts and applications that can vary from country to country. I've been studying Islam since 9/11 and have read sources other than what you refer to as anti-jihadist.<br /><br />You may think I'm ignorant. Perhaps I am to a certain extent. But I'm not <b>TOTALLY</b> ignorant of the benign aspects of Islam. Remember, I'm a Spanish major.<br /><br />BTW, medieval Al-Andalus was, for a time, quite mild. Then, the Damascence "caliphate" moved in. I'm simplifying, but I think you get my point: "radicalization" should be of concern to the West, largely because Muslims are ever searching for the will of Allah -- a concept that most Westerners do not grasp very well.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-63436809481540534802011-06-22T05:57:42.566-05:002011-06-22T05:57:42.566-05:00Damien,
Could you name in specific academic schola...Damien,<br />Could you name in specific academic scholars to whom you're referring? I'm curious to know if I've read any of those same scholars' work?Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-65416254851837615722011-06-22T04:34:38.981-05:002011-06-22T04:34:38.981-05:00If one have to live uneasily with so llttle freedo...If one have to live uneasily with so llttle freedom and almost no opportunity to achieve anything as a disadvantaged nonbeliever in an asian country that is dominated by islamic culture, in almost every aspects, and when one have to face unfair discrimination, unreasonable hostility and creepy alienation from their ever unhelpful, selfish, shabby islamic culture, one would know that any criticism of islamic culture are not sweeping generalization but more to do with the unpleasant reality of backwardness and problems caused by islamic culture in asia, though other similar unpleasant nonislamic asian culture contribute to the problems too. <br /><br />WLILAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-57724390765088114792011-06-21T18:37:42.120-05:002011-06-21T18:37:42.120-05:00Re reading your question, I did not answer it.
Th...Re reading your question, I did not answer it.<br /><br />The origin of this group the Euromuslims is in fact mistaken liberal policies of the 1970s, though some that were responsible were not very liberal, like Magret Thatcher in the UK.<br /><br />It was a combination of liberal nicesness and political games, that started the surge of "political refugees". Accepting a political refugee from a country is a diplomatic slap in the face as it is a public way of saying you abuse your population and we all know it.<br /><br />So from 1975 Europe and Britain started getting a large influx of people, particularly from Muslim nations under the refugee status. Big Mistake Number One was that most of these were not victims of abuse but in fact political agitators and extremists. Thus the Muslim Brotherhood's hard-core, Baathists and other hard-liners were given a new life and welcomed in Europe. Now 40 years on they are well established, have children that have grown up and encouraged to join the legal profession, local politics and the civil service. They agitated, infiltrated local communities and began to dominate. That brought around Big Mistake Number Two - that is convincing the nice liberal authorities to accept Mass Family Migration, which brought around a mostly low-educated mass of followers into the country who were either indebted or ignorant enough to support these radicals.<br /><br />They now have a strong support base for anti-integation, they have allegences to clerics and politicians outside in their contries of origin and worst of all, they fund, harbour and offer support - and thier children - to terrorism. Not all but enough to condemn the communities as a grouping.<br /><br />Two very big mistakes.D Charles QChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17805304737361014277noreply@blogger.com