tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post2935700144554544576..comments2023-10-03T07:01:41.144-05:00Comments on Always On Watch: Semper Vigilans: Happy Birthday, Land That I Love!Always On Watchhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comBlogger185125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-27587067461136737702017-07-05T18:08:52.771-05:002017-07-05T18:08:52.771-05:00You may be driving a chariot, CI, but Trump has to...You may be driving a chariot, CI, but Trump has to drive a quadriga. If he f's it up, then the "four horsemen" take over. :)<br /><br />Trump's horses are named "Courage, Temperance, Justice, and Wisdom. There relationship is as folllows Courage:Temperance::Justice:Wisdom. Courage and Temperance are OPPOSING virtues. Wisdom and Justice are OPPOSING virtues.<br /><br />Plato, "Laches (On Courage) <i>SOCRATES: And courage, my friend, is, as you say, a knowledge of the fearful and of the hopeful?<br /><br />NICIAS: Yes.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And the fearful, and the hopeful, are admitted to be future goods and future evils?<br /><br />NICIAS: True.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And the same science has to do with the same things in the future or at any time?<br /><br />NICIAS: That is true.<br /><br />SOCRATES: Then courage is not the science which is concerned with the fearful and hopeful, for they are future only; courage, like the other sciences, is concerned not only with good and evil of the future, but of the present and past, and of any time?<br /><br />NICIAS: That, as I suppose, is true.<br /><br />SOCRATES: Then the answer which you have given, Nicias, includes only a third part of courage; but our question extended to the whole nature of courage: and according to your view, that is, according to your present view, courage is not only the knowledge of the hopeful and the fearful, but seems to include nearly every good and evil without reference to time. What do you say to that alteration in your statement?<br /><br />NICIAS: I agree, Socrates.<br /><br />SOCRATES: <b>But then, my dear friend, if a man knew all good and evil, and how they are, and have been, and will be produced, would he not be perfect, and wanting in no virtue, whether justice, or temperance, or holiness? He would possess them all, and he would know which were dangers and which were not, and guard against them whether they were supernatural or natural; and he would provide the good, as he would know how to deal both with gods or men.</b><br /><br />NICIAS: I think, Socrates, that there is a great deal of truth in what you say.<br /><br />SOCRATES: But then, Nicias, <b>courage, according to this new definition of yours, instead of being a part of virtue only, will be all virtue?</b><br /><br />NICIAS: It would seem so.<br /><br />SOCRATES: But we were saying that <b>courage is one of the parts of virtue?</b><br /><br />NICIAS: Yes, that was what we were saying.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And that is in contradiction with our present view?<br /><br />NICIAS: That appears to be the case.<br /><br />SOCRATES: Then, Nicias, we have not discovered what courage is.<br /><br />NICIAS: We have not.<br /><br />LACHES: And yet, friend Nicias, <b>I imagined that you would have made the discovery, when you were so contemptuous of the answers which I made to Socrates. I had very great hopes that you would have been enlightened by the wisdom of Damon.</b></i>Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-27433205578471522012017-07-05T14:48:01.825-05:002017-07-05T14:48:01.825-05:00Ever drive a chariot, CI?
How about a quadriga?
...Ever drive a <a href="https://youtu.be/VcmQUJkubno" rel="nofollow">chariot</a>, CI?<br /><br />How about a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadriga" rel="nofollow">quadriga</a>?<br /><br />The Romans used to LOVE racing quadrigas. The race in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frE9rXnaHpE" rel="nofollow">Ben Hur</a> is one of my favorites.<br /><br />Plato had a "chariot" too. He described it once in his "Phaedrus".Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-70215258323678179392017-07-05T14:09:25.963-05:002017-07-05T14:09:25.963-05:00(cont)
SOCRATES: Then both men and women, if they...(cont)<br /><br /><i>SOCRATES: Then both men and women, if they are to be good men and women, must have the same virtues of temperance and justice?<br /><br />MENO: True.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And can either a young man or an elder one be good, if they are intemperate and unjust?<br /><br />MENO: They cannot.<br /><br />SOCRATES: They must be temperate and just?<br /><br />MENO: Yes.<br /><br />SOCRATES: Then all men are good in the same way, and by participation in the same virtues?<br /><br />MENO: Such is the inference.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And they surely would not have been good in the same way, unless their virtue had been the same?<br /><br />MENO: They would not.<br /><br />SOCRATES: Then now that the sameness of all virtue has been proven, try and remember what you and Gorgias say that virtue is.<br /><br />MENO: Will you have one definition of them all?<br /><br />SOCRATES: That is what I am seeking.<br /><br />MENO: If you want to have one definition of them all, I know not what to say, but that virtue is the power of governing mankind.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And does this definition of virtue include all virtue? Is virtue the same in a child and in a slave, Meno? Can the child govern his father, or the slave his master; and would he who governed be any longer a slave?<br /><br />MENO: I think not, Socrates.<br /><br />SOCRATES: No, indeed; there would be small reason in that. Yet once more, fair friend; according to you, virtue is 'the power of governing;' but do you not add 'justly and not unjustly'?<br /><br />MENO: Yes, Socrates; I agree there; for justice is virtue.<br /><br />SOCRATES: Would you say 'virtue,' Meno, or 'a virtue'?</i>Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-70199985900364783732017-07-05T14:08:48.042-05:002017-07-05T14:08:48.042-05:00Plato, "Meno"
MENO: There will be no d...Plato, "Meno"<br /><br /><i> MENO: There will be no difficulty, Socrates, in answering your question. Let us take first the virtue of a man—he should know how to administer the state, and in the administration of it to benefit his friends and harm his enemies; and he must also be careful not to suffer harm himself. A woman's virtue, if you wish to know about that, may also be easily described: her duty is to order her house, and keep what is indoors, and obey her husband. Every age, every condition of life, young or old, male or female, bond or free, has a different virtue: there are virtues numberless, and no lack of definitions of them; for virtue is relative to the actions and ages of each of us in all that we do. And the same may be said of vice, Socrates (Compare Arist. Pol.).<br /><br />SOCRATES: How fortunate I am, Meno! When I ask you for one virtue, you present me with a swarm of them (Compare Theaet.), which are in your keeping. Suppose that I carry on the figure of the swarm, and ask of you, What is the nature of the bee? and you answer that there are many kinds of bees, and I reply: But do bees differ as bees, because there are many and different kinds of them; or are they not rather to be distinguished by some other quality, as for example beauty, size, or shape? How would you answer me?<br /><br />MENO: I should answer that bees do not differ from one another, as bees.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And if I went on to say: That is what I desire to know, Meno; tell me what is the quality in which they do not differ, but are all alike;—would you be able to answer?<br /><br />MENO: I should.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And so of the virtues, however many and different they may be, they have all a common nature which makes them virtues; and on this he who would answer the question, 'What is virtue?' would do well to have his eye fixed: Do you understand?<br /><br />MENO: I am beginning to understand; but I do not as yet take hold of the question as I could wish.<br /><br />SOCRATES: When you say, Meno, that there is one virtue of a man, another of a woman, another of a child, and so on, does this apply only to virtue, or would you say the same of health, and size, and strength? Or is the nature of health always the same, whether in man or woman?<br /><br />MENO: I should say that health is the same, both in man and woman.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And is not this true of size and strength? If a woman is strong, she will be strong by reason of the same form and of the same strength subsisting in her which there is in the man. I mean to say that strength, as strength, whether of man or woman, is the same. Is there any difference?<br /><br />MENO: I think not.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And will not virtue, as virtue, be the same, whether in a child or in a grown-up person, in a woman or in a man?<br /><br />MENO: I cannot help feeling, Socrates, that this case is different from the others.<br /><br />SOCRATES: But why? Were you not saying that the virtue of a man was to order a state, and the virtue of a woman was to order a house?<br /><br />MENO: I did say so.<br /><br />SOCRATES: And can either house or state or anything be well ordered without temperance and without justice?<br /><br />MENO: Certainly not.<br /><br />SOCRATES: Then they who order a state or a house temperately or justly order them with temperance and justice?<br /><br />MENO: Certainly.<br /><br /> </i>Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-29318065765955616802017-07-05T14:00:23.771-05:002017-07-05T14:00:23.771-05:00He would recognize EXACTLY what I'm saying. :...He would recognize EXACTLY what I'm saying. :)Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-36574495866596716002017-07-05T11:54:00.053-05:002017-07-05T11:54:00.053-05:00Do you really think Plato would endorse the pedest...Do you really think Plato would endorse the pedestrian and mendacious manner in which your using them?<br /><br />- CICIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07261660740601698500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-22967516982746659472017-07-05T11:53:02.557-05:002017-07-05T11:53:02.557-05:00Did Machiavelli define 'virtu' differently...Did Machiavelli define 'virtu' differently?Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-76371188312616709662017-07-05T11:51:10.018-05:002017-07-05T11:51:10.018-05:00My arguments are over 2,500 years old. Do you REA...My arguments are over 2,500 years old. Do you REALLY think they're "party-specific"?<br /><br />Do you really think that Plato defined these terms (virtue/wisdom/justice/courage/temperance) with a "slant" towards enhancing the values of a particular/specific political party?Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-1232131409783014612017-07-05T11:42:28.055-05:002017-07-05T11:42:28.055-05:00It was pretty clear, I'm referring specificall...It was pretty clear, I'm referring specifically to your question: <i>Prove your NOT a Veteran caring soley for financial compensation.</i><br /><br />I need not define anything for your benefit, as you're less than gracious [read: mature] in your requests....but since you correlate his inability to maintain a message to Veterans without petulant tantrums - to "wisdom", it's little wonder. Did Obama express the same "wisdom" when he used the military as a prop? Or are your philosophical positions framing entirely by the artificial constructs of a political party [read: convenience for the narrative]?<br /><br />- CICIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07261660740601698500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-73486117037244449692017-07-05T11:28:01.323-05:002017-07-05T11:28:01.323-05:00You complain about Trump disrepecting your honour?...You complain about Trump disrepecting your honour? Do you even know what honour is?Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-57516134385553075412017-07-05T11:25:11.918-05:002017-07-05T11:25:11.918-05:00A simple definition of "virtue" would su...A simple definition of "virtue" would suffice. That way, you need not define two (wisdom/ justice).Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-44796118346765127132017-07-05T11:23:38.403-05:002017-07-05T11:23:38.403-05:00So you can't frame the parameters of the evide...<i>So you can't frame the parameters of the evidence you would seek? </i><br /><br />I think I did that many posts ago...<br /><br /><i>...Demonstrate that you know and understand the precise difference between justice (what you claim to demand) and wisdom (that which Trump exercises).</i><br /><br />Simple definitions would suffice.<br /><br />PS - I've 60+ years of introspection. Show me (et al) that you haven't wasted all your time reading the Huff Post.Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-57305269772139197612017-07-05T09:57:48.431-05:002017-07-05T09:57:48.431-05:00Bloggers having fun!
Less fun now that it's s...<i>Bloggers having fun!</i><br /><br />Less fun now that it's starting to be like watching a fart in a whirlwind. The mental gymnastics required for some faux-arguments must surly be tiring.<br /><br />- CICIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07261660740601698500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-22056586886637705012017-07-05T09:56:03.252-05:002017-07-05T09:56:03.252-05:00Readers can tell when someone "knows" so...<i>Readers can tell when someone "knows" something, and the other person is just talking out of his *ss.</i><br /><br />Indeed we can! Thank you for recognizing this salient point.<br /><br />- CICIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07261660740601698500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-33071612856056594032017-07-05T09:54:19.530-05:002017-07-05T09:54:19.530-05:00So you can't frame the parameters of the evide...So you <i>can't</i> frame the parameters of the evidence you would seek? In the argument you desire? Fascinating.<br /><br />Your opinion of your legal mind [and philosophical] is....interesting. Introspection prior to allegation seems not to be a virtue with you.<br /><br />- CICIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07261660740601698500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-80510469485281946132017-07-05T09:54:18.586-05:002017-07-05T09:54:18.586-05:00Gentlemen,
I see that you're having quite the ...Gentlemen,<br />I see that you're having quite the discussion here.<br /><br />Bloggers having fun!<br /><br />I'll not interrupt again for a while. Carry on.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-12601855286727586772017-07-05T09:52:34.418-05:002017-07-05T09:52:34.418-05:00Readers can tell when someone "knows" so...Readers can tell when someone "knows" something, and the other person is just talking out of his *ss.Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-4592976009954599002017-07-05T09:50:29.881-05:002017-07-05T09:50:29.881-05:00Non-recognition of arguments is an interesting tac...Non-recognition of arguments is an interesting tactic, but doesn't win any arguments.Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-81345308356035209572017-07-05T09:49:03.600-05:002017-07-05T09:49:03.600-05:00Oh, my case rested long ago. You've simply be...Oh, my case rested long ago. You've simply been in cross examination. :)Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-43044659032285127062017-07-05T09:38:38.400-05:002017-07-05T09:38:38.400-05:00Yep....superseded for the duration by the Uniforme...Yep....superseded for the duration by the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. <br /><br /><i>Therefore your comments represent "virtue signalling", and mine represent "actual virtue".</i><br /><br />Oh please continue...tell us more! This is rich. Nothing says interment troll like "I know more than you, so nyah, nyah, nyah....<br /><br />The self appointed smartest guys in the room are always the life of any party. Please carry on.<br /><br />- CICIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07261660740601698500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-52142196171954012142017-07-05T09:38:32.641-05:002017-07-05T09:38:32.641-05:00What are "Inalienable" rights and where ...What are "Inalienable" rights and where do THEY come from?Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-4671356679493012552017-07-05T09:37:09.193-05:002017-07-05T09:37:09.193-05:00ps - Can a man "sign" his way into "...ps - Can a man "sign" his way into "slavery/ bondage", CI? Why, or why not?Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-11054774862021143392017-07-05T09:35:39.737-05:002017-07-05T09:35:39.737-05:00Else, wtf is the UCMJ for?Else, wtf is the UCMJ for?Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-20549835975372669192017-07-05T09:34:42.194-05:002017-07-05T09:34:42.194-05:00Well, we need not sign a contract to enter militar...<i>Well, we need not sign a contract to enter military service, no?</i><br /><br />One that "suspends" for the duration our "Constitutional Rights," correct?Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4320479736034351430.post-9739759589621516602017-07-05T09:33:00.675-05:002017-07-05T09:33:00.675-05:00The difference between us, CI, is that I KNOW the ...The difference between us, CI, is that I KNOW the difference between "justice" and "wisdom", and you don't. Therefore your comments represent "virtue signalling", and mine represent "actual virtue".Thersiteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15751286903359745316noreply@blogger.com